Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th January 2019, 07:46 PM   #1
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK: p.s. - Real Dogs Have Feathering.
Posts: 3,361
Default Portugese cup hilt?

Just acquired this sword, should be with me next week, Vendor called it 'Unknown', But I remembered a very similar sword Fernando posted HERE

Sword is roughly 1 metre long, the blade is 82 cm. Cup appears to be held onto the guard by two screws or rivets (what little i can see I suspect rivets) - will know which on arrival, the tail end appears to be tabbed and peened into a slot in the knuckle bow as does Fernando's. The knuckle bow - crossguard join appears to have been repaired.

The blade appears to have some indistinct marks on the fairly long ricasso area and may have some well-worn decoration along the blade. Looks quite sharp and pointy Possibly a slightly rougher version of fernando's, more towards the end of their useage period?

Any suggestions on age? Is it Portugese or other? maybe an oldish victorian fake?
Attached Images
      

Last edited by kronckew : 30th January 2019 at 08:01 PM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2019, 08:09 PM   #2
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 8,006
Default

How in hell, Wayne ?
The sword in the link is essentially Spanish !
... and the present one is also Spanish ... like; i mean the blade, and not only, looks like a phoney. But what do i know ? .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2019, 09:38 PM   #3
midelburgo
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 99
Default

I think it is a Toledo souvenir version from 1960s of the so-called model 1796 Spanish cavalry trooper sword, which actual existence is in doubt for many.

http://hoploteca.blogspot.com/2014/...odelo-1796.html

(the page is in Spanish, but it has a translator device on the upper left corner)

I hope you can send it back. Because of the lack of distal diminution, balance is usually horrible in these wallhangers, not good even for poking around.

Last edited by midelburgo : 31st January 2019 at 10:36 AM.
midelburgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2019, 06:56 AM   #4
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK: p.s. - Real Dogs Have Feathering.
Posts: 3,361
Default

Ah, well, had some suspicions with the long ricasso. wasn't expensive... At least we have it on record here as a fake for future buyers.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2019, 03:21 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 7,899
Default

Good attitude Wayne.
At least this is a nice looking sword for what it is, and does make a good wall hanger in office etc. I've gotten stuck with some real 'tin' over the years, especially from a mid west catalog dealer years back (his name shall not be mentioned but all us old timers know who he is .
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2019, 04:13 PM   #6
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 8,006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
... At least this is a nice looking sword for what it is, and does make a good wall hanger in office etc. I've gotten stuck with some real 'tin' over the years, especially from a mid west catalog dealer years back (his name shall not be mentioned but all us old timers know who he is .

No affront Jim but, perhaps Wayne finds that his office walls are too few and to good to hang such a 'nice looking' dud. But take no wrong interpretation from my crude words . It is just that we all human dudes are susceptible to behave differently; i just become deeply frustrated when i am scammed. In my peculiar character, when i acquire something that ends up being a fake, i either return it (often a hard or unfeasible task), or offer it to some non-collector, after telling him such is a dud, or throw it in the garbage bag, which i did one ... or twice.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2019, 07:54 PM   #7
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 7,899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
No affront Jim but, perhaps Wayne finds that his office walls are too few and to good to hang such a 'nice looking' dud. But take no wrong interpretation from my crude words . It is just that we all human dudes are susceptible to behave differently; i just become deeply frustrated when i am scammed. In my peculiar character, when i acquire something that ends up being a fake, i either return it (often a hard or unfeasible task), or offer it to some non-collector, after telling him such is a dud, or throw it in the garbage bag, which i did one ... or twice.



None taken and actually I agree somewhat, and when I have gotten 'royally fleeced'..I admit I did not take it calmly....but after exhausting whatever resolution or remedy I tried unsuccessfully......it was time to just classify the matter into 'lesson learned' ( and I got the scars to prove it!).

I have known many guys who kept these 'misteakes' in a kind of 'hall of shame'. ...and as Wayne has generously offered....as with this one, standing as a 'lesson learned' for others. Personally I have always believed that the knowledge and experiences shared here are to help those who are either in 'the game' or just beginning, and hopefully better their chances.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2019, 08:30 PM   #8
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,698
Default

Yes, we have all had high hopes and received a few of these over the years. I'n glad, Wayne, that you didn't spend a small fortune. I like to use these types in real practice, slashing at tree limbs and stabbing water melons (when my neighbors aren't watching, that is- ). So often, we have a real antique that we would love to swing around, but we know better. Kill a couple of shrubs with it to get out your frustration and you will learn to like it for what it is!
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:39 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.