Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th February 2018, 06:46 PM   #31
JamesKelly
Member
 
JamesKelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan, U.S.A.
Posts: 101
Default

Before you remove that Nasty Orange paint you might investigate it a bit.

I used to work as the metallurgist for a specialty nickel alloy distributor, retired the Ides of March 2007. One of the neat gadgets we had was an X-ray fluoroscope analyzer. Left no mark on the metal. For some years I used to bring in various brass mounted or framed firearms for analysis.

Used one called "Innov-X Systems Model #XT-245S Spectrometer"
This device is also used to analyze pigments in the paint on supposedly old oil paintings. Lets one know if this classic work used pigments - cadmium, for example - that were not available couple hundred years ago.

If you can locate either a friend in metallurgy, or at an art museum, you might get your paint analyzed. Give you some idea of age, though it sure does look old.

A Word of Warning - some lab guys have absolutely no respect for antiquity. Coupled with a bad sense of humor, well. Do make sure your personal body is present during any phase of lab testing. So they don't cut the thing up for a better job. Don't laugh.
Gun makers have been painting their stocks various colors for the last five centuries or so. Matchlock showed a lovely (to my eye) 500-year old Green snapping matchlock.
Here in the USA a successful gun-smith Henry Leman in Lancaster, Pennsylvania painted a number of his rifles red. Supposedly the Indians liked them, and he did supply rifles to our Gov't to fulfill treaty obligations with the Western Indians. Also it would likely be cheaper than his usual painted strips on plain maple. Am aware of one such red Leman rifle bought by a Caucasian in Lancaster County, them moved to our Midwest.

Personally I would leave that orange paint right where it is.
JamesKelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 09:39 AM   #32
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,226
Default

This example was sold in England recently, described as a Hudsons Bay Company musket. As can be seen, it has the same sort of red/orange thick paint finish.
Attached Images
   
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 11:10 AM   #33
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 522
Default

I checked the book "Trade Guns of the Hudson Bay Company 1670 to 1970" by S. James Gooding:

Other than shape, Wood and stock finish are the only other feature to be considered. In 1717 the secretary gave an order to Mr. Hawkins "the Proof Master" for, amongst other things, "70 Gunstocks Sound and of a Dark Colour at 3s pr stock". In 1769 the Gorvernor and Committee wrote "Thos. Hopkins and Council at Albany Fort "We have ordered as many of the guns to be white stocked as we could procure". The 1717 stock"of a dark colour" would have been of walnut while the White stocks would have been beech, both Woods which were commonly used by Ordnance Department at the time of Military arms.
At a Meeting of the Gorvernor and Committee of the HBC held on December 20, 1780 it was ordered " ....that in future the guns have Brown Stocks (no White) the Barrel likewise Brown with an additional Weight of 6 oz to them for strength.


No word of orange or reddish stocks at all!
corrado26
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 05:48 PM   #34
Oliver Pinchot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 325
Default

We've had several of these walk in over the years; not my area per se
but they are usually associated with Colonial Africa.

I knew Jim Gooding for many years, he was a fine scholar and professor who
was precise in his research and clear in his writing; no ambiguity with him. If he doesn't mention orange-painted stocks vis a vis Hudson Bay guns in his book, it's pretty certain they should not be attributed to that area.
Oliver Pinchot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:04 PM   #35
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,229
Default

Hi,
Many thanks to all for the continued interest, info and advice.
Regards,
Norman.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2018, 01:08 PM   #36
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 6,929
Default

Gentlemen, let me add a further 'touch up' to my humble participation in the paint issue, once my previous post #8 was somehow inconclusive...

Here is an Africanized Lazarina. Barrel mouth reinforced with skin, stock comb decorated with leather strips and the inevitable brass nails and washers. The octogonal barrel with Birmingham proof marks and the number 15 (bore?), with the traditional inscription LAZARO LAZARINO LEGITIMO DE BRAGA. The lock and other parts are of national (Portuguese) production.
For those unfamiliar with the portuguese, i will give it a try at translating the part referring to the paint subject:

One of the particularities of interest in this example is that it preserves the original woods (often replaced in Africa with more noble woods) which used to leave Portugal painted red. Remnants of the original colour may be seen under the washers and skin reinforcements that turned open with time

( Courtesy Eduardo Nobre in AS ARMAS E OS BARÕES)

.
Attached Images
  
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2018, 09:57 PM   #37
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,229
Default

Hi Fernando,
Many thanks for the further info.
Kind Regards,
Norman.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.