Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th August 2017, 04:25 AM   #1
shayde78
Member
 
shayde78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 92
Default Maker's mark ID help

I posted this thread in the Ethno forum for a koummya that appears to have a European blade. The is a partial maker's mark that I have not received a response regarding a possible ID, so I thought, if it is indeed European, the fine folks here could provide some insight.

For those interested, you can follow the above link for more pictures. I will, however, post a pic of the full blade, and another of the partial mark. I welcome any feedback regarding the possible European origin of this blade.

Thanks all.
Attached Images
  
shayde78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2017, 07:43 PM   #2
shayde78
Member
 
shayde78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 92
Default

Hi all,

I found this page of illustrated makers' marks. In you opinions, any chance the mark on the pictured blade corresponds to Juan Martinez as shown below. It isn't an exact match, but I am uncertain how accurately the illustrations depict the actual marks.

Thank you for your thoughts.
Attached Images
 
shayde78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2017, 05:17 AM   #3
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 6,645
Default

That was a pretty good call Shayde, and that plate from Wagner has always been a good source for interesting marks. Actually these makers often had a number of marks used, not just one, especially on Spanish blades.
It seems pretty clear that this is some sort of bird, eagle...the talons and tail feathers are still visible while the rest has been lost.

This blade is typical koummya configuration, and not a repurposed European blade, but it is known that European marks were often imitated by artisans in African entrepots. It seems more likely that this blade was marked by an artisan with spurious mark which could have been from any number of sources seen by them.

Double head eagles were used in variation from Passau in 16th c. to various Solingen makers in mid 17th, but none had these pronounced leg and talons that I can locate. That is not to say that a local artisan would not add such features, as these forked type claw designs are well known in various marks and symbols used in Saharan contexts into Sudanese, and these often transmitted considerably via trade interaction.

Interestingly the 'koummya' is a form of khanjhar and well known across the Maghreb well into Algerian areas, so Saharan influences not unusual.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2017, 06:32 PM   #4
shayde78
Member
 
shayde78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 92
Default

Thank you, Jim. As always, your comments are appreciated.

So, to you the mark has Saharan features? I was hoping for European, as it seems unlikely to match to an African maker as the records are so scarce. Despite the classic Koummya shape, the bevels and ricasso seemed decidedly European to me. Oh well, still the nicest blade I have seen in person on one of these

Thanks again
shayde78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2017, 12:43 AM   #5
shayde78
Member
 
shayde78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 92
Default

With some recent focus on makers' marks, I thought I'd revisit this query. I'm hoping someone can add to Jim's assessment and maybe narrow things down more. I'm convinced the mark is well formed enough to have been used more than once so, perhaps, someone has seen another example.
Thanks for any additional thoughts.
shayde78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2017, 11:35 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 6,645
Default

Shayde, I hope someone out there might have exposure to more of these and possibly have seen such a marking. Being at the forte suggests an arsenal or perhaps makers mark, but might be otherwise as well.
Often coins have clues to state or official markings so maybe a reference on coins might offer some help?
All I could find was 'Eagle of Saladin' which was situated in Egypt mostly.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:40 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.