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Old 4th July 2017, 03:02 PM   #1
Miguel
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Default Barong

Hello everyone, I would be most grateful if our more knowledgeable members of this type of weapon could tell me if it is authentic or a tourist item and if the former its origin ?
O/L is 16.5 ins out of scabbard with a 11.75 ins blade x 1.875 ins at its widest part.
Thank you.
Miguel
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Old 4th July 2017, 04:13 PM   #2
mariusgmioc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel
Hello everyone, I would be most grateful if our more knowledgeable members of this type of weapon could tell me if it is authentic or a tourist item and if the former its origin ?
O/L is 16.5 ins out of scabbard with a 11.75 ins blade x 1.875 ins at its widest part.
Thank you.
Miguel


Hello Miguel,

I am by no means very knowledgeable but from the photos appears the blade is laminated, which I believe is a good sign.

Indicating the thickness of the blade and whether it is sharp or not, might also help in forming a more educated oppinion.


However, on the downside it appears to be of very recent production and with a very atypical clipped point configuration I have never seen on a Barong before.

I am curious myself to see what others have to say about it but I am rather suspicious about it.
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:18 PM   #3
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Hello Miguel,

it's a post WWII barong, it could be worked for local use but also as tourist barong. The clipped point is indead very unusual. Like Marius said, the lamination is a good sign but seems worked very coarse.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:42 PM   #4
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interesting blade shape. Looks similar to the one in Cato's book (pg. 23), but not as graceful. Could it have been done as an afterthought?
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Old 6th July 2017, 01:22 AM   #5
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Hello Miguel,

Etching the blade would certainly be interesting!

Could you please post close-ups of the hilt?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 6th July 2017, 02:33 PM   #6
Miguel
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Thanks everyone for your replies they are much appreciated.

Indicating the thickness of the blade and whether it is sharp or not, might also help in forming a more educated opinion.

You are quite right Marius and I will rectify this as soon as I am next in my loft. The photos are what I took some time ago when I started to catalogue my collection. I omitted to include the thickness at the time so will have to root it out of its storage box. From memory the blade is robust and sharp.

[I]it's a post WWII barong, it could be worked for local use but also as tourist barong. The clipped point is indead very unusual. Like Marius said, the lamination is a good sign but seems worked very coarse.

Thanks Detlef, your age estimate seems to agree with Marius.

[I]interesting blade shape. Looks similar to the one in Cato's book (pg. 23), but not as graceful. Could it have been done as an afterthought?
4th July 2017 06:18 PM.

Thanks Kino, I don't know whether the clip point was added or not. Will try to get an idea when I root it out.

Etching the blade would certainly be interesting!

Could you please post close-ups of the hilt?

I have never etched a blade yet but I may have a try as a number of my weapons may benefit from it. Regarding the photos I will gladly take some when I have rooted it out.

Thanks again.

Miguel
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Old 7th July 2017, 07:36 AM   #7
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Hi Miguel:

Interesting barung. I agree with Sajen, probably second half of 20th C. The clipped point may have been an alteration to remove a forging flaw. There are other flaws showing as "gaps" in the blade as a result of partial delamination.

Ian.
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Old 7th July 2017, 02:47 PM   #8
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Hello Ian, thanks for your comments. Knowing very little about these weapons I was unaware that the clipped blade was an unusual feature and think that your observation may be correct. I will take and post some pics of that area when I root it out from storage to enable a better assessment.
Regards
Miguel
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Old 24th July 2017, 07:07 PM   #9
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Hi folks, sorry for the delay but better late than never as they say.

Marius the blade is laminated and 4mm thick tapering to nothing at the point.

Kai, photos of the hilt as promised.

Ian, photos of the clipped point, I think you were correct in that the clipped point was done to remove forging flaws although I don't think the photos are clear enough, for which I apologize.
Miguel
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Old 24th July 2017, 07:30 PM   #10
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It's an intersting piece and I think the blade is thought to be like this, I think 1940-1960 would be a good age guess, still a rather nice banati pommel, ferrule simple from brass and the scabbard let me think like this. Also the rather rough worked and finished but laminated blade is a good sign for this guess.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 25th July 2017, 01:36 AM   #11
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Nice barong.

Here are two may be? older blades.
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Old 25th July 2017, 01:34 PM   #12
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Hi Detlef & Ccual, thank you for your comments and photos which have made me think you are correct in your opinions that the blade was meant to have a clipped point and was not clipped to remove flaws as suggested by Ian which is a very valid suggestion but the photos swung it for me. Whatever I like it, I think barons have a very pleasing shape and must be a formidable weapon as well as a useful working tool. Thank you again.
Miguel
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Old 26th July 2017, 11:52 AM   #13
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Hello Miguel,

I also tend to believe that the blade shape is intentional - etching could help to verify age and blade construction. Without more details, I'm not prepared to suggest this is antique: the tip seems a bit thin for fighting...

The nice pommel certainly looks antique to me. While there are old examples with brass fittings, the ferrule & sleeve here look quite crude and probably suggest a later fit/repair (probably contemporary with the scabbard replacement).

I would not call this a barung - as Chris pointed out, there are a bunch of related blades from the Sulu archipelago. An interesting variant!

Regards,
Kai
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Old 28th July 2017, 03:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Miguel,

I also tend to believe that the blade shape is intentional - etching could help to verify age and blade construction. Without more details, I'm not prepared to suggest this is antique: the tip seems a bit thin for fighting...

The nice pommel certainly looks antique to me. While there are old examples with brass fittings, the ferrule & sleeve here look quite crude and probably suggest a later fit/repair (probably contemporary with the scabbard replacement).

I would not call this a barung - as Chris pointed out, there are a bunch of related blades from the Sulu archipelago. An interesting variant!

Regards,
Kai


Hello Kai, thank you for your very interesting comments, you may have gathered that I know little or nothing about these weapons and am most grateful to you and the other members who have contributed for the information provided. The ferrule and sleeve don't appear crude to me but you may be correct regarding a later fit / repair and I have included some photos showing the tang entering the hilt for your info. I would also be grateful if you would explain why you think the scabbard is a replacement as I would never have guessed.
Miguel
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Old 28th July 2017, 06:32 PM   #15
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Hello Miguel,

Quote:
The ferrule and sleeve don't appear crude to me but you may be correct regarding a later fit / repair

It's not badly done. I was referring to the finer workmanship feasible with the much more malleable silver (compared to the rather stubborn brass). I guess you see the difference if you compare the silver sleeve of Charles' non-Barung shown by Chris in post #11 to your piece: silver flush with the wooden pommel (shrinkage in low-humidity environments can change things a bit though), no sharp edges and nice flow of lines, and decorative rings in the ferrule and final silver band.


Quote:
I have included some photos showing the tang entering the hilt for your info.

Could you please try to get the base in focus?


Quote:
I would also be grateful if you would explain why you think the scabbard is a replacement as I would never have guessed.

This kind of MOP inlay is a relatively late fashion. It is quite possible that it was crafted for this blade to complete the ensemble.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 28th July 2017, 10:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCUAL
Nice barong.

Here are two may be? older blades.
Hi CCUAL,

The one you show in the case on the bottom rack is called a gayang. It is a rare Moro blade form. AFAIK, the clippped section is always curved in the manner of the example you have shown. A stylized version of a gayang can often be found on those tourist plaques showing The Weapons of Moroland.

In more than 30 years of collecting Philippine weapons, I have seen only three examples.

Ian.
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Old 29th July 2017, 03:02 PM   #17
Miguel
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Quote:
Could you please try to get the base in focus?


Trust these are clearer.
Miguel
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