Early US Militia Staff Officer Sword

Terry K · 29th January 2017, 04:40 AM

I've been trying to buy this for years and finally was able to get a deal done. From what I could find out it is what the title says. Was told also it was a "pistol grip" handle. No maker marks I can see. It has stars, arrows and peoples names on the 32 inch blue paneled blade. It looks like the names are Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Greene, Warden and Rooks? Any more info would appreciated.
Terry

Terry K · 29th January 2017, 04:41 AM

more pics

Terry K · 29th January 2017, 04:42 AM

looks like ray skin handle

Jim McDougall · 29th January 2017, 05:00 PM

Terry,
Amazing and fascinating example! Glad you got it and thank you for sharing it here.
I would not have suspected this to be U.S. but for the mention of these key figures names you have noted, and would have thought this a British sword.
Naturally in the time period of this sword however, British makers were profound suppliers to the US. and brings to mind some current affairs of the early years of the 19th c.

The term 'pistol grip' typically refers to the bulbous pommel of the Ottoman swords kilij, pala and that star on the pommel recalls some similar 'Eastern or Oriental' motif. This may have some perhaps Masonic connotation .
In 1804 the U.S had its first foreign engagement in North Africa, where the Marines victoriously subdued 'Barbary pirates'. In this encounter, the Ottoman 'scimitar' became known, while in Egypt these same type sabres (actually kilij and pala) were encountered by British and French forces against the fabled Mamluks.

Soon, these 'Oriental' sabres became 'the' fashion among officers of France, England and America, eventually becoming regulation patterns for officers dress swords, which became known as 'mameluke swords'.

I would suspect this influence is seen in the hilt of this interesting sword which may have served as a commemorative, presentation or diplomatic gift. More research will of course say more, and as always I look forward to Glen's comments .

Returning to the Masonic potential, the five point star is also found in Masonic symbolism, but known as well in Morocco. The baldric type carry rings on the scabbard (along with the Ottoman style pommel) suggest distinct associations to the Maghreb, which includes Moroccan and Algerian coastal regions adding to the potential for diplomatic nature The acanthus type quillon terminals are neo classic features as often seen in Federal period.

Terry K · 29th January 2017, 07:33 PM

Thanks for the comments Jim. I too was wondering about the markings on the blade. I believe all of the early presidents had ties to Masonry. The arrow pointing to the tip interested me. I've only seen one or two others that were almost the same, some with bone grips, another with this style but different cross guard and extra names on the blade. I believe the non presidential names were Generals in the Revolution. I love malukes myself and have been looking for an early USMC one.
Terry

Jim McDougall · 29th January 2017, 07:35 PM

More thoughts leaning toward Masonic connections.
It seems that Masonic swords in modern times have pretty consistently used baldric type mounts (carry rings near scabbard throat on each side of scabbard rather than single side carry). I am not sure how early this began but the geometric stars, six point and five point are both Masonic symbols used in various cases.
The acanthus motif is as noted often employed in the neo classic themes associated with the Federal period and neo classic themes of the latter 18th into 19th c.
The names Washington, Adams and Jefferson are of course US presidents, but unclear on the others. As Washington was deceased in 1799, which this sword post dates, these names must be commemorative . Perhaps noted as members in key Masonic associations ?

The 'Oriental' nature of certain features on this sword suggests in degree (no pun intended) the Masonic link and symbolism aligns somewhat with their esoterica.

Speculation of course, but hopefully worth considering.

Terry K · 30th January 2017, 02:36 AM

Hi Jim,
Many of the early 1800's US military swords went to the baldric type after losing the frog. In fact the 1834 officers sword went to that. There are many earlier examples especially in Militia swords and presentation ones. After an absence of 20 years they were brought back in the Model 1860 staff officers sword on many makers models and the Model 1860 pattern 1872 did also.
I was told that this was most likely a presentation type and the presidents names were of those that had served so far, if true that would date to 1804-1817 time period, but I don't know if that is true or not. As I said I have seen one or two others but with more presidents names on them.
The grip type is seen on many militia type officers swords, just usually with part bone.
I've seen a few other Masonic markings on much early US items, so who knows.

Thanks,
Terry

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2017, 09:15 PM

Hi Terry,
Thanks very much for the informative exchange! Its great to bounce ideas back and forth as I admit I have been out of the US swords field for more years than I can say.
My thoughts toward the Masonic motif were actually not to suggest this is a Masonic regalia sword, but perhaps a military sword with such motif. As you noted, most military, gentry, political and professional people were Freemasons, and with military officers often these honorifics were reflected on their dress swords.

The ray skin and wire wrap, as well as this blade (which resembles 1796 British infantry officers dress sword) suggests this is a British supplied sword.
That considered, it would suggest this sword likely places in the early 19th c period you have noted. As it does not correspond to the more regulation patterns and forms for regular military the militia idea, as well as presentation is likely as well.

I would think that militia officers would have even more latitude than regular army in commissioning swords, and that may account for the Masonic motif. Well noted on the names other than presidents probably being generals or other key figures in American political standing.

The Ottoman (pistol grip) style pommel recalling the mameluke swords popular with military officers and star on pommel along with acanthus leaves on quillons are certainly neo classic Masonic devices, and I think the stars and arrows must be as well. With the American Eagle in the national emblem, the arrows clutched in the claw (=arrows of war) offset by the olive branch of peace in the other. That is the only symbolism I find so far on arrows.

I am trying to locate my copy of "American Presentation Swords" (Altmayer, 1958) maybe something there.

I researched the origins of the USMC mameluke sabre for the Marines magazine years ago, and recall the British mameluke swords for officers (1831) and recall having one by Manton of Calcutta years ago. Very attractive swords!

Terry K · 31st January 2017, 01:26 AM

Hi Jim,
I too like the exchange of ideas here on the forum. Nor did I mean anything other than I didn't think it was Masonic, just a sword with their markings? Seems like every time thinks they know something, someone shows up with the exception. I have never owned an old Mameluke just 1950's on.I screwed up once and led a late 19th century one get away and still regret it. For sure is a militia sword as in the early 1800's we never had a large standing army, just militias. Maybe someone else will chime in.
Yours,
Terry

29th January 2017, 04:40 AM	#1
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Early US Militia Staff Officer Sword I've been trying to buy this for years and finally was able to get a deal done. From what I could find out it is what the title says. Was told also it was a "pistol grip" handle. No maker marks I can see. It has stars, arrows and peoples names on the 32 inch blue paneled blade. It looks like the names are Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Greene, Warden and Rooks? Any more info would appreciated. Terry Attached Images

29th January 2017, 04:41 AM	#2
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	more pics Attached Images

29th January 2017, 04:42 AM	#3
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	looks like ray skin handle Attached Images

30th January 2017, 09:15 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Hi Terry, Thanks very much for the informative exchange! Its great to bounce ideas back and forth as I admit I have been out of the US swords field for more years than I can say. My thoughts toward the Masonic motif were actually not to suggest this is a Masonic regalia sword, but perhaps a military sword with such motif. As you noted, most military, gentry, political and professional people were Freemasons, and with military officers often these honorifics were reflected on their dress swords. The ray skin and wire wrap, as well as this blade (which resembles 1796 British infantry officers dress sword) suggests this is a British supplied sword. That considered, it would suggest this sword likely places in the early 19th c period you have noted. As it does not correspond to the more regulation patterns and forms for regular military the militia idea, as well as presentation is likely as well. I would think that militia officers would have even more latitude than regular army in commissioning swords, and that may account for the Masonic motif. Well noted on the names other than presidents probably being generals or other key figures in American political standing. The Ottoman (pistol grip) style pommel recalling the mameluke swords popular with military officers and star on pommel along with acanthus leaves on quillons are certainly neo classic Masonic devices, and I think the stars and arrows must be as well. With the American Eagle in the national emblem, the arrows clutched in the claw (=arrows of war) offset by the olive branch of peace in the other. That is the only symbolism I find so far on arrows. I am trying to locate my copy of "American Presentation Swords" (Altmayer, 1958) maybe something there. I researched the origins of the USMC mameluke sabre for the Marines magazine years ago, and recall the British mameluke swords for officers (1831) and recall having one by Manton of Calcutta years ago. Very attractive swords! Last edited by Jim McDougall; 30th January 2017 at 09:38 PM.

29th January 2017, 05:00 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Terry, Amazing and fascinating example! Glad you got it and thank you for sharing it here. I would not have suspected this to be U.S. but for the mention of these key figures names you have noted, and would have thought this a British sword. Naturally in the time period of this sword however, British makers were profound suppliers to the US. and brings to mind some current affairs of the early years of the 19th c. The term 'pistol grip' typically refers to the bulbous pommel of the Ottoman swords kilij, pala and that star on the pommel recalls some similar 'Eastern or Oriental' motif. This may have some perhaps Masonic connotation . In 1804 the U.S had its first foreign engagement in North Africa, where the Marines victoriously subdued 'Barbary pirates'. In this encounter, the Ottoman 'scimitar' became known, while in Egypt these same type sabres (actually kilij and pala) were encountered by British and French forces against the fabled Mamluks. Soon, these 'Oriental' sabres became 'the' fashion among officers of France, England and America, eventually becoming regulation patterns for officers dress swords, which became known as 'mameluke swords'. I would suspect this influence is seen in the hilt of this interesting sword which may have served as a commemorative, presentation or diplomatic gift. More research will of course say more, and as always I look forward to Glen's comments . Returning to the Masonic potential, the five point star is also found in Masonic symbolism, but known as well in Morocco. The baldric type carry rings on the scabbard (along with the Ottoman style pommel) suggest distinct associations to the Maghreb, which includes Moroccan and Algerian coastal regions adding to the potential for diplomatic nature The acanthus type quillon terminals are neo classic features as often seen in Federal period.

29th January 2017, 07:33 PM	#5
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Thanks for the comments Jim. I too was wondering about the markings on the blade. I believe all of the early presidents had ties to Masonry. The arrow pointing to the tip interested me. I've only seen one or two others that were almost the same, some with bone grips, another with this style but different cross guard and extra names on the blade. I believe the non presidential names were Generals in the Revolution. I love malukes myself and have been looking for an early USMC one. Terry

29th January 2017, 07:35 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	More thoughts leaning toward Masonic connections. It seems that Masonic swords in modern times have pretty consistently used baldric type mounts (carry rings near scabbard throat on each side of scabbard rather than single side carry). I am not sure how early this began but the geometric stars, six point and five point are both Masonic symbols used in various cases. The acanthus motif is as noted often employed in the neo classic themes associated with the Federal period and neo classic themes of the latter 18th into 19th c. The names Washington, Adams and Jefferson are of course US presidents, but unclear on the others. As Washington was deceased in 1799, which this sword post dates, these names must be commemorative . Perhaps noted as members in key Masonic associations ? The 'Oriental' nature of certain features on this sword suggests in degree (no pun intended) the Masonic link and symbolism aligns somewhat with their esoterica. Speculation of course, but hopefully worth considering.

30th January 2017, 02:36 AM	#7
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Hi Jim, Many of the early 1800's US military swords went to the baldric type after losing the frog. In fact the 1834 officers sword went to that. There are many earlier examples especially in Militia swords and presentation ones. After an absence of 20 years they were brought back in the Model 1860 staff officers sword on many makers models and the Model 1860 pattern 1872 did also. I was told that this was most likely a presentation type and the presidents names were of those that had served so far, if true that would date to 1804-1817 time period, but I don't know if that is true or not. As I said I have seen one or two others but with more presidents names on them. The grip type is seen on many militia type officers swords, just usually with part bone. I've seen a few other Masonic markings on much early US items, so who knows. Thanks, Terry

31st January 2017, 01:26 AM	#9
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Hi Jim, I too like the exchange of ideas here on the forum. Nor did I mean anything other than I didn't think it was Masonic, just a sword with their markings? Seems like every time thinks they know something, someone shows up with the exception. I have never owned an old Mameluke just 1950's on.I screwed up once and led a late 19th century one get away and still regret it. For sure is a militia sword as in the early 1800's we never had a large standing army, just militias. Maybe someone else will chime in. Yours, Terry