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Old 19th July 2015, 04:10 PM   #1
harrywagner
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Default Myetery knife

I purchased this knife recently, without a clue as to what it is. It was too interesting to pass up. Has anyone ever seen a knife like this before? It has a koummya style blade, fully sharp on the concave side and half sharp on the convex side. LOA: 17", length of knife: 16.75", length of blade: 8.5". It appears to be silver, not plated. It weighs an impressive (and approximate) 3.5 lbs. Any help identifying it will be much appreciated.

Harry
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Old 19th July 2015, 07:47 PM   #2
Battara
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Looks like a special and expensive type of Moroccan koummya to me.
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Old 19th July 2015, 09:14 PM   #3
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Agree with Jose. Nice workmanship.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 19th July 2015, 09:18 PM   #4
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Default Amber Hilt?

Hi,
Nice, I'd bet when tested properly it will be the real ancient Amber. Best to have a jeweler test it. "Young" Amber is resin and when rubbed hard will smell piney
True amber will withstand a drop of nail polish remover left on it's surface for a minute or so, the resin will soften and smear. Photo of one I found. see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...0733#post180733
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Old 20th July 2015, 01:32 PM   #5
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Default Moroccan or Indian?

Thanks for the replies. I agree that this knife's blade has a koummya style edge. It may be Moroccan, but there are a few details about that explaination that bother me. The blade has a koummya edge but is shaped like a jambiya, minus the central rib. Also, I can't remember ever seeing a koummya blade decorated like that. And the jewels bother me as well. This looks more Indian that Moroccan to me. Robert Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia in the 18th-19th and 20th centuries" (page 72) mentions Indian merchants trading in Syria and the Hijaz region of Saudi Arabia. I can't help wondering if this might be one of those?
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Old 20th July 2015, 07:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrywagner
Thanks for the replies. I agree that this knife's blade has a koummya style edge. It may be Moroccan, but there are a few details about that explaination that bother me. The blade has a koummya edge but is shaped like a jambiya, minus the central rib. Also, I can't remember ever seeing a koummya blade decorated like that. And the jewels bother me as well. This looks more Indian that Moroccan to me. Robert Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia in the 18th-19th and 20th centuries" (page 72) mentions Indian merchants trading in Syria and the Hijaz region of Saudi Arabia. I can't help wondering if this might be one of those?


Hi Harry,

It is a koummiya from Morocco. You have some koummiya with a central rib and semi precious stones. Your koummiya is more for parade and fantasia than the usual 19th c. koummiya. I think that your koummiya is from c. 1920ties. We have a lot of examples like that...
Best,
Kubur
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Old 21st July 2015, 03:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi Harry,

It is a koummiya from Morocco. You have some koummiya with a central rib and semi precious stones. Your koummiya is more for parade and fantasia than the usual 19th c. koummiya. I think that your koummiya is from c. 1920ties. We have a lot of examples like that...
Best,
Kubur


Hi Kubur,
From the 1920s? I would have guessed it was much older. If you have a link to other examples like this I would love to see them. Thanks for your help!

Best regards,
Harry
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Old 22nd July 2015, 03:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrywagner
Thanks for the replies. I agree that this knife's blade has a koummya style edge. It may be Moroccan, but there are a few details about that explaination that bother me. The blade has a koummya edge but is shaped like a jambiya, minus the central rib. Also, I can't remember ever seeing a koummya blade decorated like that. And the jewels bother me as well. This looks more Indian that Moroccan to me. Robert Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia in the 18th-19th and 20th centuries" (page 72) mentions Indian merchants trading in Syria and the Hijaz region of Saudi Arabia. I can't help wondering if this might be one of those?


Hi Harry,
Nice knife, thanks for sharing it with us. I have no doubt that it is a Koummya but I have not seen one before so heavily decorated with jewels and I tend to agree with Kubur that it has been made for someone for special occasions. If you look at page 33 of `Islamic Weapons Maghrib to Moghul` you will see similar decoration on Janwi and Nimcha.
Best wishes
Miguel
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Old 22nd July 2015, 10:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel
Hi Harry,
Nice knife, thanks for sharing it with us. I have no doubt that it is a Koummya but I have not seen one before so heavily decorated with jewels and I tend to agree with Kubur that it has been made for someone for special occasions. If you look at page 33 of `Islamic Weapons Maghrib to Moghul` you will see similar decoration on Janwi and Nimcha.
Best wishes
Miguel


Hi Miguel,
I have that book but did not notice the similarity. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. The curli-cues are very similar. This knife has them attached to what looks like a vine, versus in a circular pattern around a central flower or shape. This may be just a variation in design. No doubt it is Moroccan. Thanks to you, Kuber, and others for the help. I plan to have it appraised and will update this thread with the result.

Best regards,
Harry
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Old 23rd July 2015, 07:12 AM   #10
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Dear Harry,
Sold recently and dated from the first part of the 20ties.
Recent but valuable...
Best, Kubur
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Old 23rd July 2015, 06:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrywagner
I purchased this knife recently, without a clue as to what it is. It was too interesting to pass up. Has anyone ever seen a knife like this before? It has a koummya style blade, fully sharp on the concave side and half sharp on the convex side. LOA: 17", length of knife: 16.75", length of blade: 8.5". It appears to be silver, not plated. It weighs an impressive (and approximate) 3.5 lbs. Any help identifying it will be much appreciated.

Harry



Salaams harrywagner ... I cannot see the age you are attributing this dagger. It may not pass the silver test in my opinion as it looks like a mixture... The work on the metal surface is no where near the other examples... There is no patina on the weapon so far as I can see... It looks modern as does the blade decoration. Can you say where you got it? As in all things photograhic, however, I could be wrong...


Checking against the following library details~
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=koummya

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...oroccan+daggers see#6 for hilt varieties.

and for more simply type Moroccan daggers into search.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 23rd July 2015 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 24th July 2015, 08:28 PM   #12
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I almost forgot to mention this reference http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 26th July 2015, 08:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Dear Harry,
Sold recently and dated from the first part of the 20ties.
Recent but valuable...
Best, Kubur


Hi Kubur,
Wow. Thank you. That removes any doubt I still had. I wish the one I have looked as nice as those two!

Best regards,
Harry
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Old 26th July 2015, 08:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
I almost forgot to mention this reference http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Hi Ibrahim,
Thanks for the links and info. I agree with you about my knife's origin and age. That it was older must have been wishful thinking on my part.

Best regards,
Harry
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Old 27th July 2015, 07:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrywagner
Hi Ibrahim,
Thanks for the links and info. I agree with you about my knife's origin and age. That it was older must have been wishful thinking on my part.

Best regards,
Harry



Salaams Harry, It is great that you have acknowledged what I thought. Only too glad to have been of some use. Thank you for your reply.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi..
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