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Old 16th April 2014, 04:17 PM   #1
fernando
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Default A small cannon barrel

This time not a noise maker but potentialy a handcannon barrel.
Although the auctioner has put it up as an XVIII century 'mascolo d'allegrezza' i have had a firm opinion that this is a XIV century gothic handgonne barrel. When i received it and held in my hand i realized that such slim and slightly octogonal barrel would not make the purpose of a signal bombard, with its 13,5 cms length and only 38 m/m width at mid section. The bore measures at muzzle 25 m/m (some 20 m/m at chamber).

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Old 16th April 2014, 07:39 PM   #2
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Hi Nando,


I do hope to be able and tell with sufficient authority on the subject that this indeed is one of the earliest existing handgonne barrels that I have ever seen.

It compares quite exactly to the sample in my collection

- see my thread, post #2:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...light=handgonne

which is obviously made of band iron folded around a hardened core.

Please also see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...light=handgonne
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...highlight=berne

With their overall shapes, of round section throughout and with notable swamping at the rear as well as at the forward end, plus the fact that their touch holes are very close to the rear end, they represent the last stylistic extension of the Romanesque period, being very close in style to the famous Loshult gun (ca. 1330-50), and doubtlessly ranging among the earliest wrought iron barrels ever made.

If you look at it closely, holding it against broad daylight, you should be able to identify the characteristic structure of the wound band iron, which is clearly visible on my specimen.

And, once more in terms of style, it is significantly earlier than the earliest barrels adopting the new Gothic style and reflecting it by their multi-sided shapes: hexagonal and octagonal, both probably entering the war scene as late as ca. 1400, as some barrels in both your collection and mine denote

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...and+cannon+1400

and as the earliest known existing and datable portable 'long arm'/'gun', which luckily is in my collection, proves because it exactly corresponds to an illustration dated 1411 (Cod.Vind. 3069, fol. 38v) - see:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...handgun+1400-10

Please also search the surface in front of the touch hole carefully for a tiny arrowhead mark, as it is struck on my barrel!

The measurements of my counterpart are:
overall length 13.8 cm, outer diameter at both the rear and forward end 4.5 cm, 'bore' ca. 25 mm; thus our barrels are nearly identical and doubtlessly were part of a series made by the same workshop!
Highly remarkable is the narrowing rear breech section you mentioned, as it is another early criterion typical of guns meant to fire limestone balls (German: Steinbüchsen), before balls were cast of lead or, in the case of the smith Peter Pögl in the 1490's, were of wrought iron, made by order of King Maximilian.
I should closely examine my sample as well.


Best wishes
and congrats,
Michl
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Last edited by Matchlock : 17th April 2014 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:32 PM   #3
Norman McCormick
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Bem feito meu amigo.

My Best Regards,
Norman.
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Old 16th April 2014, 11:48 PM   #4
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Hi Norman,

Though your Portuguese is way better than mine my command of Latin enables me to perfectly understand what you were saying, and of course I fully consent.
After all, I was not totally 'innocent' regarding Nando's purchase ...
Anyway, Nando is the winner of an important and early barrel that, to most people, sadly is nothing but 'another little noisemaker'. Among those ranked the auction house: their catalog illustration depicted that barrel standing in an upright position, thus proving that to them it merely was a saluting gun of uncertain date.
A small group of connoisseurs knows better though ...

Best,
Michael
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Old 17th April 2014, 02:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman McCormick
Bem feito meu amigo...

Muito obrigado, Norman but, this is not fair
Just as i thought to declare with all my transparency that, the bem feito (well done) was not my credit, Michael comes up on stage and unveals the mistery .
It was he who actualy pointed my radar to this example and made me see this is the real thing. Still now i am digesting this piece; if he didn't open my (our) eyes for the band iron structure of this barrel i would think those seams are forging irregularities .
Still i don't discertn the arrowhead mark; but then, i don't have Michl's master's eyes
And by the way, Norman; your Scotish is improving. Wonder why Michl realizes it is portuguese
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Old 18th April 2014, 08:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Hi Norman,

Though your Portuguese is way better than mine my command of Latin enables me to perfectly understand what you were saying, and of course I fully consent.
After all, I was not totally 'innocent' regarding Nando's purchase ...
Anyway, Nando is the winner of an important and early barrel that, to most people, sadly is nothing but 'another little noisemaker'. Among those ranked the auction house: their catalog illustration depicted that barrel standing in an upright position, thus proving that to them it merely was a saluting gun of uncertain date.
A small group of connoisseurs knows better though ...

Best,
Michael



Hi Michael,
It is nice to know that Fernando has a 'guardian angel' to back him up as there may be a certain Lady who thinks that he has just bought another length of rusty pipe.
Kind Regards,
Norman.

P.S. I have to confess my Portuguese is from an online translator and as far as Latin goes I was asked politely at school to choose another subject as after two years my teacher had become as frustrated as me at my inability to grasp, as far as I was concerned, the inexplicable conjugation of Latin verbs amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant, amabo, amabis, amabit, amabimus, amabitus, amabint, amabam, amabas, amabat, amabamus, amabatus, amabant, etc etc etc I think?

Last edited by Norman McCormick : 18th April 2014 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 18th April 2014, 09:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
i have had a firm opinion.


Hi Fernando,
I'm afraid this little phrase gave the game away as I know who's 'firm opinion' you would trust. I do hope you enjoy your new 'old banger' just don't light the touch hole
Kind Regards,
Norman.
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Old 19th April 2014, 07:55 AM   #8
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Spectacular find, regardless of who pointed you that way, my friend! Such an incredible piece and (I'm assuming here) sold for the price of a common signalling piece! Well done for all involved, as everyone likes a savings!
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Old 19th April 2014, 12:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman McCormick
... the inexplicable conjugation of Latin verbs amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant, amabo, amabis, amabit, amabimus, amabitus, amabint, amabam, amabas, amabat, amabamus, amabatus, amabant, etc etc etc I think?

Oh man!
My language is latin based, but i have never dreamed of knowing that much Latin. Congrats
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Old 19th April 2014, 12:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
Spectacular find, regardless of who pointed you that way, my friend!

Thanks for my part, Capitão

Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
... and (I'm assuming here) sold for the price of a common signalling piece!

You bet
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Old 19th April 2014, 12:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman McCormick
... I'm afraid this little phrase gave the game away as I know who's 'firm opinion' you would trust. :cool ...

These Scots are bright and clever
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Old 5th December 2014, 06:06 PM   #12
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Giving wings to imagination ... or in other words, a conjugation of several cannon bed types seen around with a barrel that potentialy had a rather different stock .


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Old 14th December 2014, 01:15 PM   #13
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Default A small cannon barrel

Beautiful gun.
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Old 15th December 2014, 12:04 PM   #14
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Great find!
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