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Old 13th February 2014, 04:22 PM   #1
Iain
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Default Looking for a little assistance on German blade

Hi guys,

As most of you know I don't venture on this part of the forum all that often. But I have a nice auction win from the other night I'd love to hear opinions on from some of the European oriented members.

While the mounts may be "ethnographic" the blade is certainly not. From my resources this should be a 17th century German example? It's had a hard and long life!

Regards
Iain
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Old 13th February 2014, 10:35 PM   #2
fernando
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Ah, what a chalenge for the knowledged ones, Ian.
Meanwhile, have you thought of (also) posting the "wolf" side of the blade in the inverted position ?
I don't know; i tested it and it seems to look more wolf like .

,
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Old 14th February 2014, 08:46 AM   #3
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Good idea Fernando. Here's the largest images of the marks I have for the moment.
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Old 15th February 2014, 07:23 PM   #4
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Old 15th February 2014, 08:12 PM   #5
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Hi Iain,
Probably my imagination or/and a trick of the light but there appears to be some very faint marks in the fuller above the cross and orb possibly a star or a crown and a face?, would be nice if there was. The attached is from the thread on makers marks.
My Regards,
Norman.
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Old 16th February 2014, 09:45 AM   #6
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Hi Norman,

Very interesting! I should hopefully have this in hand in a few weeks (still working to get it out of the US and into Europe). But I think you might be onto something with this!

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Iain
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Old 16th February 2014, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
Hi Norman,

Very interesting! I should hopefully have this in hand in a few weeks (still working to get it out of the US and into Europe). But I think you might be onto something with this!

Regards,
Iain


Hi Iain,
I really hope so
My Regards,
Norman.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 06:31 PM   #8
E Farrell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Ah, what a chalenge for the knowledged ones, Ian.
Meanwhile, have you thought of (also) posting the "wolf" side of the blade in the inverted position ?
I don't know; i tested it and it seems to look more wolf like .

,


Fernando, what book is that image from? I'm trying to find a good reference for one of those marks.
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Old 4th March 2014, 06:26 AM   #9
Jim McDougall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Farrell
Fernando, what book is that image from? I'm trying to find a good reference for one of those marks.


If I may take the liberty of responding Fernando, I just wanted to make some comments on the running wolf marks.
This page is from "Cut and Thrust Weapons" Eduard Wagner, 1967, Prague.

I would note that this assemblage of variations of these familiar marks often regarded as the 'running wolf of Passau' is somewhat misleading as the labeling of centuries under them implies some kind of chronology of development. Actually these usually chiseled markings were widely copied outside Passau in other centers, particularly Solingen, and were mostly interpretations of that theme. These were typically notably varied as applied by various shops, makers and not particularly consistant, though the stylized images usually had primarily the same running stance. By the middle of the 17th century, the use of the running wolf had pretty much ceased in Germany, however it remained in use by some German smiths in England (Shotley Bridge). It ceased there at the end of that venture and resumed in mid 18th by Samuel Harvey in England (bearing his initials) ending by about 1770s or 80s.

The running wolf mark was copied by Chechen swordsmiths in the Caucusus probably from imported blades, perhaps Styrian or from Germany becoming known by mid 19th century as 'ters maymal' blades (actual meaning of the term somewhat unclear).
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Old 4th March 2014, 02:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
If I may take the liberty of responding Fernando ...

Thank you for the prompt reaction, Jim.
In fact i did no more than opting for our archives resource ... which is:

In the front page of our this Forum, there is a sticky thread called:
Classic threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14460

... In which you have a topic in post #2 dedicated to:
Early makers trade marks:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5453

Then in post # 6 you find the Passau Wolf marks in Pg. 109 of Wagner's Cut and Thrust Weapons
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Old 4th March 2014, 04:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Thank you for the prompt reaction, Jim.
In fact i did no more than opting for our archives resource ... which is:

In the front page of our this Forum, there is a sticky thread called:
Classic threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14460

... In which you have a topic in post #2 dedicated to:
Early makers trade marks:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5453

Then in post # 6 you find the Passau Wolf marks in Pg. 109 of Wagner's Cut and Thrust Weapons



Thank you Nando!!! I notice that Mr. Farrell's post indicating the running wolf mark he is concerned with is concurrent here under the thread titled 'Danish Pallasche' and it is indeed an intriguing situation.
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