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Old 31st December 2013, 06:59 PM   #1
Matchlock
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Default A Very Early Wheellock Arquebus, ca. 1530, in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris

Discussing earliest wheellocks, we may not forget this arquebus in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris. It is French, no doubt, but generally dated 'ca. 1520', which in my eyes is not justified.
The earliest date I would seriously assign to it is 'ca. 1525-35', with a main focus on 'ca. 1530'.
The stock is in all probability limewood, with a lesser possiblity of maple.

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Old 31st December 2013, 07:04 PM   #2
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The remainder of the images.

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Old 31st December 2013, 09:25 PM   #3
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If possible, I would (and other forum members) as cubrecazoleta operation (COVERPAN) and the trigger system. It seems completely strange .....

Affectionately. Fernando K
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Old 1st January 2014, 08:25 AM   #4
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Hi Fernando K.,


The very same type of pan covers of the early 1530's ca be found on the Ottheinrich arquebus of 1533, on another in the Royal Armouries Leeds and on a detached lock in the Dresden armory, all ca. 1530-35:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17814


Best,
Michael
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Old 1st January 2014, 09:32 AM   #5
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Matchlock Estimate:

I declare, by a principle of intellectual honesty, I'm more confused: the view from inside the key the cubrecazoleta (pan-cover) is not appreciated, nor as the crank wheel you can move, or that another system was applied . Also, I think I see the hole holding the wheel, but the trigger system appears to be independent of the plate (plate) of the key (lock) ....

Affectionately. Fernando K
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Old 1st January 2014, 09:54 AM   #6
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Oh yeah, Fernando K.,

I can see what you mean; the constructer of this lock mechanism seems to have chosen his very own special way, as he did with the specially mounted French main spring for which he had to hollow out the stock, and the long dog spring on the outside of the forestock.
The trigger itself, though, as always, is suspended in the stock behind the lock.

Aficionado,
Michael
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Old 1st January 2014, 10:27 AM   #7
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Matchlock Estimate:

I think I see the cubrecazoleta (pan-cover) is opened manually with the lever beneath the bowl (pan), ending in a hook, but I find the spring that opens and the method of attachment. As for the trigger system, anything would be possible .....

Thank you very much. Sincerely, Fernando K
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Old 1st January 2014, 11:41 AM   #8
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I cannot make out the pan-cover spring either - the inside view of the lock mechanism does not show it. Maybe it's missing?

Best,
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Old 1st January 2014, 12:24 PM   #9
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Matchlock Estimate:

Perhaps the cubrecazoleta (pan-cover) cover. your cam and spring were attached to the box (stock) as the mainspring. Now that I'm looking more closely, I think the bronze plaque under and behind this key (lock) is the sure shot, which acts through a square button (decorated with lines)

Affectionately. Fernando K.

P. S. Why have you signed your mail as "Fan" (Fan)?. You're not a fan .......
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Old 1st January 2014, 12:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando K
Matchlock Estimate:

Perhaps the cubrecazoleta (pan-cover) cover. your cam and spring were attached to the box (stock) as the mainspring. Now that I'm looking more closely, I think the bronze plaque under and behind this key (lock) is the sure shot, which acts through a square button (decorated with lines)

Affectionately. Fernando K.

P. S. Why have you signed your mail as "Fan" (Fan)?. You're not a fan .......



Sorry if my Spanish was that bad. I meant it was the same as affectionately ...

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Old 1st January 2014, 12:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando K
... P. S. Why have you signed your mail as "Fan" (Fan)?. You're not a fan .......

Ah, ah, Fernando ... the usual confusion with translations
Michael certainly wished to express his afection (fondness), same as you finish your posts with Affectionately and not his aficion (castillan for fanship).
If translation of conversational phrases is hard, translating technical terms is ten times as harder. I am rather surprised that Michael understands your (automatic) translations rather easy
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Old 1st January 2014, 12:47 PM   #12
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Crossed posts (#10 and #11)
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Old 1st January 2014, 12:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Ah, ah, Fernando ... the usual confusion with translations
Michael certainly wished to express his afection (fondness), same as you finish your posts with Affectionately and not his aficion (castillan for fanship).
If translation of conversational phrases is hard, translating technical terms is ten times as harder. I am rather surprised that Michael understands your (automatic) translations rather easy




You are absolutely right, 'Nando,

I am just a bit confused when Fernando K. uses key for lock, whereas key means llave and lock would be cierre - on both a door and a weapon.

Best,
Michl
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Old 1st January 2014, 12:59 PM   #14
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Default Michel and Fernando

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fernando K
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Old 1st January 2014, 01:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
You are absolutely right, 'Nando,

I am just a bit confused when Fernando K. uses key for lock, whereas key means llave and lock would be cierre - on both a door and a weapon.

Best,
Michl

Translations are not necessarily the same as interpretations, reason why when you make a rigorous statement you need an interpreter and not a translator ; you know, the idiomatic issue. Spaniards call the lock a key (llave), reason why Fernando's translation engine gives him the 'key' term.
... Whereas the Portuguese call it fecho, which corresponds to lock, as in english.
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Old 1st January 2014, 01:32 PM   #16
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Well, when I looked up the English and German equivalents for llave and cierre I found the correct definitions right away.

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