Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th June 2017, 03:34 AM   #1
Cathey
Member
 
Cathey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: adelaide south australia
Posts: 158
Default Need help dating Basket Hilt by Garden NCO?

Hi Guys

Looking for assistance with this NCO Basket Hilt Crimea Period by Garden.
Nationality: British
Date: 1852 pattern
Maker/Retailer: GARDEN
Overall Length: 40 3/8” 102.4 cm in scabbard 39” 99cm sword only
Blade length: 33” 83.9 cm, fuller 8 ½” 21.7 cm
Blade widest point: 1 ½”
Hilt widest point: 7” 17.5 cm
Inside grip length: 4 ¼” 10.5 cm
Marks, etc.: Stamped I over 4 on the Wrist Guard, Etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON in the fuller

Description
Scottish NCO Sword
Extremely Large Steel Basket with Fishskin grip bound with copper wire. Plain Broadsword blade with short central fuller etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON. Leather scabbard with two steel mounts and frog.

Interestingly it is marked with a 1 over 4 on the wrist guard, no idea what this means but it has lead me to believe that this is a NCO sword not an Officers. As this sword in etched GARDEN not Garden and Sons it is likely by Hugh Garden 1827-1851 of 200 Piccadilly, Army Accoutrements and Saddler. Whilst this sword appears to comply with the general description of the sword introduced in as the Staff Sergeant Mark 1 pattern in 1857, the maker Hugh Garden died in 1852, and there are similar examples that pre-date the Indian Mutiny.

In Robson’s it states that “The steel-hilted pattern of broadsword introduced for officers of Highland regiments in 1828 was also prescribed for NCOs of those regiments as soon as the old brass or bronze-hilted ones had worn out. Ordinary sergeants in all infantry regiments ceased to carry swords in 1852, only staff sergeants retaining them.” This would support the sword being produced prior to the 1857 pattern.

I have some questions that I am seeking assistance with:

1. Did Hugh Garden have a contract to provide NCO swords?
2. Did NCO’s buy their own swords as this may be a private purchase?
3. What level of rank would the NCO most likely be? i.e warrant officer, staff sergeant etc
4. Does anyone have some thoughts as to the actual date of this sword?
5. What might the either I or 1. Over 4 on the writs guard mean?



Cheers Cathey and Rex
Attached Images
   
Cathey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.