Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th February 2015, 03:54 PM   #1
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 424
Default Any help with these koummyas?

I've got these two Koummyas several years ago and would like to know their age and origin.
Regards
corrado26
Attached Images
      
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2015, 09:17 PM   #2
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,172
Default

The only thing i can tell you is that these two look very nice. The blades are well executed.
Age and origin i don't know. The only thing i know is that they come from Morocco.

Let's hope some more knowledgeable members will give a comment.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2015, 09:55 PM   #3
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 404
Default

Those are exceptionally nice pieces, I would guess especially made for presentation to Dignitaries!
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2015, 10:12 PM   #4
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,140
Thumbs up

I WOULD AGREE MOROCCO 20TH CENTURY BETTER QUALITY RECENT DAGGERS THAN MOST I SAW FOR SALE THERE. IF SOLID SILVER VERY GOOD QUALITY IF SILVER PLATED GOOD BUT NOT FIRST CLASS. NICE EXAMPLES, VERY PLEASING TO THE EYE WITH GOOD BLADES NOT JUST COMMON TOURIST STUFF.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2015, 11:17 PM   #5
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,087
Default

Ok I can tell you a lot about this koummiya because I have one similar and I did some researches about it. There are from the first part of the 20th c.
around 1900-1930.
Some have good and fonctionnal blades, like yours.
Some like mine have shitty blades, not even sharpened, but with a nice stamp on it. The second type is clearly for parade and are not functionnal.
They could be old tourist pieces, but I think there were just ornaments for locals.
They did some "tourist pistols" or "fantasia pistols" with the same camel bones...
Regards,
Kubur
Attached Images
      
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2015, 02:07 PM   #6
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 424
Default

Thank you all for your informative help - I love these nice pieces because of their uncommon design which set them off from the every day Koummyas. Two other koummyas from my collection have a grip that - as I'm been told -should be desert amber. The third one is inlaid with henna coloured bone.
corrado26
Attached Images
          
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2015, 08:00 PM   #7
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,087
Default

Very nice
As far I know there is no amber in the desert.
Look at the thread on the jambiya with bakelite grip.
The bakelite is a kind of old plastic...
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2015, 04:59 AM   #8
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,140
Smile

THESE LAST TWO DAGGERS ARE LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THE DAGGERS MANY SHOPS IN MOROCCO WERE FULL OF. THEY ARE FLASHY BUT NOT AS OLD OR AS GOOD WORKMANSHIP AS THE FIRST TWO. THE AMBER WILL BE REAL LOW GRADE AMBER MELTED AND REFORMED AT BEST, BUT MORE LIKELY SOME MORE MODERN SORT OF POLYMER RESIN. THEY DO MAKE A GOOD DISPLAY AND THE SOUKS IN MOROCCO WERE QUITE ATTRACTIVE WITH LOTS OF THESE AND MANY NICE RUGS MAKING UP THE WALLS AND FILLING THE SHELVES AND DISPLAY CASES.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2015, 02:14 AM   #9
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,683
Default

Am I correct that these are also made of camel bone?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2015, 05:28 AM   #10
archer
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 348
Default Amber koummyas

The blade style shown often has an odd metal grain and I believe they were all associated with presentation pieces. This one was jeweler tested for an extended time and found not only to be resin, but of the real ancient Amber.
The second photoed Amber koummya sold at auction in Italy last year for 5K.
So look at them carefully. the katar slipped in ignore it. A home test
is with nail polish remover Acetone a drop in a hidden spot should have no effect, if touched no finger prints will remain. Steve
Attached Images
        

Last edited by archer : 22nd February 2015 at 05:44 AM.
archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2015, 05:05 AM   #11
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California.
Posts: 373
Default koummyas

I especially like #2 with the white bone grip. Is that walrus ivory or something else? When it ages it has a very spectacular appearance to my eye! And yes, the blades are something really special given the ordinary workmanship that is usually seen. Congrats on these two beautiful knives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
I've got these two Koummyas several years ago and would like to know their age and origin.
Regards
corrado26



- Dave A.
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2015, 03:52 PM   #12
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 424
Default

No, I think it's either camel or goat bone. The one with the fat red grip I showed above is certainly made from henna coloured camel bone with silver application.

@ Kubur: Don't forget that the Sahara has not been always a desert, millions of years ago it was an ocean!!
corrado26
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2015, 04:11 PM   #13
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,087
Default

Really? But where are the fish now?
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2015, 08:29 AM   #14
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 424
Default

All the koummyas in the attached foto come from the collection of the former and world famous tennis champion Baron Gottfried von Cramm, born 1909, who has been living in the castle Wispenstein near Alfeld. Von Cramm founded in 1951 a transport firm dealing with cotton in Egypt and became in the same year the fifth husband of at that time richest women of the world, Barbara Hutton. So he had spent a lot of time in Egypt, where he died in 1974. I think that all my Koummyas that I have shown here have been bought during that time in Egypt.
corrado26
Attached Images
        
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:20 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.