Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th May 2012, 04:20 AM   #1
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default Sudanese spear scepter

Just picked this up on eBay. Seems to be a Mahdi period piece?
Attached Images
 
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2012, 04:54 PM   #2
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: England UK.
Posts: 4,683
Default

Looking forward to seeing better pictures. The butt end look like aluminium and before people think aluminium means around mid 20th century. Most European armies were issued aluminium mess tin well before WW1 and cookware companies were supplying aluminium pots and pans in the 1890s and perhaps even earlier. Like plastic bowls and buckets I bet the African market lapped them up. Easy to melt and turn into all sort of things.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2012, 10:19 PM   #3
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
cookware companies were supplying aluminium pots and pans in the 1890s and perhaps even earlier. Like plastic bowls and buckets I bet the African market lapped them up. Easy to melt and turn into all sort of things.


I havent fully researched it Tim, but I thought Aluminium only became a non precious metel around 1912 to 1914 era? So saucepans seem rather unlikely?

Or perahaps Im mistaken?

Id also guess zinc & tin also have a similar apprence in a low res. photo.

Spiral
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2012, 02:38 AM   #4
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2012, 06:32 AM   #5
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: England UK.
Posts: 4,683
Default

Quote {power house of cookware 1893-1920} Just a quick look.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wmh...articleID=26240

Mess tin dated. These were in use well before WW1

http://www.1420h.org.uk/archives/messtin/messtin.html

pre 1914 Russian Aluminiun bottles

http://www.collect-militaria.com/in...=571&page=1&c=5

Last edited by Tim Simmons : 30th May 2012 at 07:03 AM.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2012, 07:52 AM   #6
Timo Nieminen
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 202
Default

De-preciousization was about 1890. Before that, fit for VIPs, capping prestige momuments, etc. After that, rapidly cheaper. Some history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#History.

I thought this sceptre/spear/thing was cute, but not really my thing. Also, Quarantine here doesn't like the import of animal products like this. At best, they tend to charge for gamma-irradiation of it before you can get it. But that's my problems with it, not yours, so congrats on a cute sceptre/spear/thing!

Here is my favourite Sudanese thing. It's modern (1970s or 1980s iirc), but supposedly made in the traditional style.
Attached Images
 
Timo Nieminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2012, 07:55 AM   #7
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,491
Default

Nice piece Lew, Steel I see.

Hi Tim, Yes I see the International Aluminium institute says world production was up to 8000 tonnes by 1900. My error, it was a precious metal untill around 1889

The American firm you linked to started producing cookware in 1914, they original imported ally for novelties from Germany. {The Austrians & Swiss bieng the main producers apparently.}

Spiral
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2012, 08:15 AM   #8
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 799
Default

Interesting. Reminds me a bit of the Kordofan "dance spears" in a previous post. Maybe a cut down Mahdist spear adapted for use in ceremonial dancing ??
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2012, 09:39 AM   #9
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 476
Default

Africans ased and still use and apply everything, what is "on hand". The main
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2012, 09:44 AM   #10
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 476
Default

criterion was and is pragmatism. From this reason, there is a lot of artefacts, e.g. swords, with aluminium parts etc. Maybe they are not as nice as if they were peoduced of eg. copper etc, but, i think, it should not not derogate their value and significance
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:13 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.