Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th April 2012, 03:08 PM   #1
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default Old tenegre

This tengere just ended by ebay, unfortunately I am not the winner so I hope someone from the forum is the happy winner! It was mislabeled so I was a little bit surprised that it went high like this.

I think that it is a late 1900th century example so I want to post the pictures for your enjoy and later reference.

And would be nice to read if I was correct by my guess.

Regards,

Detlef
Attached Images
        
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 03:35 PM   #2
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default

Hi Detlef,

You are correct in both your guesses

Michael

PS But it did not go as high as I expected and I think it's a binangon, not a tenegre.
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 03:45 PM   #3
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Hi Detlef,

You are correct in both your guesses

Michael

PS But it did not go as high as I expected and I think it's a binangon, not a tenegre.



Hi Michael,

congrats, yes my bid was low since I hoped that not so many collectors see it! Please post better pictures when you have received it. I am not sure about tenegre/binangon, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=tenegre

Best regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 04:17 PM   #4
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default

Hi Detlef,

I think your beauty is a Binangon too (according to the classification in the good old days when we had more Visayan researchers here).
The hilt probably depicts Bakunawa (a local version of the Naga, a sea monster that swallows the moon now and then) as a response to the discussion in the other thread.

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 04:34 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Hi Michael,

first thank you for the respond about the Bakunawa in the other thread and the compliment about my one.

I ever have referred my binangon and tenegre with help from this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...hlight=binangon, see post # 24.

But however described your sword, it is as well a beauty!

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 05:03 PM   #6
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default

Thanks for the link, now I am confused?
If Ron, Nacho or someone else from the Visayas please could explain the difference between the two terms?

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 05:23 PM   #7
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Agree, a clarification of the terms would be great!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 07:39 PM   #8
Indianajones
Member
 
Indianajones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 180
Default

Hi there, has anyone else wondered what the material is of those thin bands around the lower end of the scabbard?!? Horn, turtleshell, else?
Greets
Bt.w. Sajen just keep on looking, there surely will be another one on e. . y.
Indianajones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 08:09 PM   #9
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
Hi there, has anyone else wondered what the material is of those thin bands around the lower end of the scabbard?!? Horn, turtleshell, else?
Greets
Bt.w. Sajen just keep on looking, there surely will be another one on e. . y.


Hi Wouter,

for the bands around the scabbard have a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...hlight=binangon
By this feature and some other points like the "pressed" head of the Bakunawa and the iron ferrule I have point it down by the estimated age.

Sure that there will be one day another one but unsure if I can get it by a price like this. Old ones like this are rare. But I am happy that it will join in such a great collection, no big sadness!

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2012, 06:04 PM   #10
Dimasalang
Member
 
Dimasalang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 264
Default

Very nice piece!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
Hi there, has anyone else wondered what the material is of those thin bands around the lower end of the scabbard?!? Horn, turtleshell, else?


I've looked back through this forum on the topic of those thin shaved pieces. For awhile many believed they were shaved tortoise shell. But now the consensus is they are shaved carabao horn...which is now a lost art. You will not find anyone in the Philippines who has this skill or craft.
I also have an image of a salakot with reference to it being made of shaved carabao horn. It is translucent as well and looks exactly like this.
Dimasalang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2012, 02:47 AM   #11
nacho
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Makati
Posts: 69
Default

Binangon is a generic term for any sword (as used in the Iloilo dialect). But people here (Philippines) generally use the term binangon to refer to any Ilonggo sword.

Thus, the "tenegre" can also be called a "binangon".

However, "tenegres" are a special type of "binangon" -- one that has the characteristic monster face.

BTW, it is a very nice piece!
nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2012, 08:26 AM   #12
Indianajones
Member
 
Indianajones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 180
Default

Thank you for clearing that up Sajen. Am always amazed of the ingenuity of tribal groups; am sure it would be a hell of a job to make thin slizes of horn!!! Although they might cook the horn first to make it more soft, still

Yes now you mention it Dimasalang, I know those salakots which you mean, with often silver (embossed) tops and rims; see pic. Indeed a similarity I hadnt thought of before.

And Sajen; wel I keep on getting amazed (and feeling stupid I didnt dare a shot) as I have seen sold a beautifull OLD kapkap -Solomons isld shell addornment- with shellstring sold for . . . . . . . .$172.00 this week!! Aarghhh
When I spot a nice one will notice you (as I'm not buying them).
Attached Images
 
Indianajones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2012, 10:56 AM   #13
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,658
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nacho
Binangon is a generic term for any sword (as used in the Iloilo dialect). But people here (Philippines) generally use the term binangon to refer to any Ilonggo sword.

Thus, the "tenegre" can also be called a "binangon".

However, "tenegres" are a special type of "binangon" -- one that has the characteristic monster face.

BTW, it is a very nice piece!


well explained!!! hopefully this should stop the blade-profile-differentiating-binangon-vs.-tenegre camp...
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2012, 11:47 AM   #14
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunjer
well explained!!! hopefully this should stop the blade-profile-differentiating-binangon-vs.-tenegre camp...


Yup!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2012, 11:48 AM   #15
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nacho
Binangon is a generic term for any sword (as used in the Iloilo dialect). But people here (Philippines) generally use the term binangon to refer to any Ilonggo sword.

Thus, the "tenegre" can also be called a "binangon".

However, "tenegres" are a special type of "binangon" -- one that has the characteristic monster face.


Thank you very much!

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2012, 01:11 PM   #16
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default

Thanks Nacho.

Do you know the etymological background for those two sword terms?
Has, for instance, tenegre anything to do with Negros (just a wild guess)?

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:13 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.