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Old 21st October 2011, 11:08 AM   #1
terry1956
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Default best way of removing rust

hi chaps, whats the best way of removing rust without wreaking the look of the lock. thanks, michael
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Old 21st October 2011, 01:58 PM   #2
Matchlock
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Hi Michael,

I've often posted my philosophy that doing less is more. It this were mine I would take out the lock, put a layer of olive oil on it and gently rub with fine steel wool. Never touch the dry iron with steel wool! This way you will get a nice bright polish, with just a few gray stains remaining.

Have fun, and best,
the other Michael
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Old 21st October 2011, 02:21 PM   #3
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Default thanks for that

Thanks for that, I just wanted to stop anymore rust forming and kill what was there, will play around later on.
thanks, michael
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Old 21st October 2011, 08:34 PM   #4
Fernando K
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Hola
Aunque la pregunta, al parecer, no ha sido dirigida a todos, contesto:
El óxido de hierro se comporta como un cuerpo extraño en la superficie del metal, como un par galvánico que fomenta mas y mas oxidación. No existe óxido pasivo, aunque en apariencia permanezca estable.
Hay que eliminar las mínimas trazas de óxido. Para ello hay tres métodos: la electrolisis y el método de zinc-soda, basados en la producción de hidrogeno naciente, que reduce al óxido, y el ultra-sonido.
El óxido se forma en cráteres irregulares "picaduras" y aunque se limpie la superficie, el óxido permanece en las cavernas, y la única manera de eliminarlo, es eliminando metal.
Estos métodos son recomendados por el ICOM (International Council of Museums)

AHello
Although the question, apparently, has not been addressed to all, replied:
The iron oxide acts as a foreign body in the metal surface, such as a galvanic couple that encourages more and more rust. There is no passive oxide, although apparently remains stable.
Minimum necessary to remove the traces of rust. For this there are three methods: electrolysis and the zinc-soda method, based on the production of nascent hydrogen, which reduces the oxide, and the ultra-sound.
The oxide is formed in craters irregular "bites" and although the surface is cleaned, rust remains in caves, and the only way to remove it is by removing metal.
These methods are recommended by the ICOM (International Council of Museums)

Afecdtuosamente. Fernando IK
fecdtuosamente. Fernando IK
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Old 21st October 2011, 09:22 PM   #5
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Default thanks again

Thanks again for reply, michael
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Old 21st October 2011, 09:26 PM   #6
Matchlock
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Hi Fernando K,

I'am afraid you should have added that all you get by using the methods you mentioned is an optically disturbed, dull, porous iron surface that has nothing to do with the original.
Wouldn'that be sad?

Best,
Michael
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Old 22nd October 2011, 01:49 AM   #7
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Hi Michael,

I rely on #0000 steel wool and 3-in-1 oil, working just the area with the 'active' rust with just enough pressure to remove it. I then wipe it dry with a paper towel, wet another one with 3-in-1, and wipe the treated area until I see no more red on the paper towel. Sometimes I have to revisit the spot with the #0000 (again in conjunction with the 3-in-1) and repeat the process.

#0000 steel wool is equivalent to somewhere between 600-grit and 1000-grit sandpaper, so with oil your safe. You would have to try really, really hard to remove patina.

Cheers,

Chris
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Old 22nd October 2011, 02:35 AM   #8
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Hi Chris,

As applying an oil layer on iron before starting any cleaning process has always been the basis of my philosophy, your suggestion sounds fair enough.
I prefer olive oil as it has been a) the historic oil care since at least the invention of firearms some 700 years ago, and b) in my experience provides the thickest and most consistent lubric layer.
Anyway, I would be eager to learn how you define 'patina' compared to 'rust'?
In other words: on what criteria is your method based?

And: why remove patina at all?!

Best,
Michael

Last edited by Matchlock : 22nd October 2011 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 03:27 AM   #9
laEspadaAncha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Hi Chris,

As applying an oil layer on iron before starting any cleaning process has always been the basis of my philosophy, your suggestion sounds fair enough.
I prefer olive oil as it has been a) the historic oil care since at least the invention of firearms some 700 years ago, and b) in my experience provides the thickest and most consistent lubric layer.
Anyway, I would be eager to learn how you define 'patina' compared to 'rust'?
In other words: on what criteria is your method based?

And: why remove patina at all?!

Best,
Michael



Hi Michael,

Given the form of patina varies from medium to medium, in the context of steel, I would consider 'patina' to be the stabilized, i.e., non-active rust (black/brown vs. the red/brown of active rust).

However, I never remove patina... at least not intentionally! The "try really, really hard" comment was meant tongue-in-cheek, as it would take a lot of pressure and elbow grease to remove stable patina with #0000 (which is why I consider it safe ).

I like olive oil as well, BTW. I think I revert to the 3-in-1 as much out of habit as for anything else, as I prefer like the "feel" of a thinner, lower viscosity liquid. Personal preference I guess...

Best Regards,

Chris
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Old 22nd October 2011, 03:56 PM   #10
Fernando K
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Estimado Matchlock:
Los tres métodos son inocuos para la superficie que no se ha oxidado, cualquiea sea su grado de pulimento: a espejo brillante, mas o menos mate. Actuan solamente donde hay óxido.
Donde se ha formado óxido, se ha sacado hierro para combinarlo con el oxígeno. Si después se elimina el óxido por medios mecanicos, aparece una superficie mas o menos oscura, donde se detectan las cavernas "picaduras", y las rayas que deja cualquier medio mecánico, que significa también alteracion de la superficie original, como ha sido, por otra parte, alterada por la formación de oxido.
No nos olvidamos que el oxido de hierro es un cuerpo duro, usado para pulir acero templado y su remoción mecánica implica una tarea invasiva y nunca se puede eliminar totalmente, salvo alteracion de la superficie.
Yo no tengo dudasrefiero uns superficie libre de oxido, aunque se pierda algo de su aspecto original, a una superficie con picaduras y rayas, que también significan pérdida visual.

Sinceramente, Fernando KDear Matchlock:
The three methods are safe for the surface has not rusted, cualquiea their degree of polish: mirror shine, more or less mate. Act only where there is rust.
Where has formed oxide, iron has been taken to combine with oxygen. If the oxide is then removed by mechanical means, there is a more or less dark area where the caves are found "tracks", and stripes that any mechanical stops, which also means alteration of the original surface, as has been, Moreover, altered by the formation of rust.
Let us not forget that the iron oxide is a hard body, used for grinding hardened steel and mechanical removal task involves invasive and can never be totally eliminated, but alteration of the surface.
I have no doubts: I prefer uns oxide-free surface, although they lose some of its original appearance to a surface with bites and scratches, which also means loss of vision.

Sincerely, Fernando K
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Old 23rd October 2011, 07:57 AM   #11
A. G. Maisey
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I have a great love of olive oil.

As a child I was washed with olive until I was 5 years old, because I suffered from severe eczema.

As an adult one of my favourite meals is olive oil and bread, accompanied by olives, cheese and a good shiraz.

My wife only uses new olive oil for cooking, and most of our food is pan fried or stir fried.

I am very fond of olive oil.

But not for my guns and knives.

Olive oil is mildly acidic, as is the case with all vegetable oils.

A quality gun oil is a far better choice for guns that are used, and microcrystalline wax such as Renaissance or Antiquax deserve serious consideration for guns and knives which are not used.
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Old 24th October 2011, 04:36 PM   #12
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry1956
hi chaps, whats the best way of removing rust without wreaking the look of the lock. thanks, michael


Salaams, Try using aluminium foil ~ use as you would use sandpaper. Fold a few pieces up as it falls apart quickly. This works at sub atomic level and though it requires a lot of rubbing it does work. Over on the Ethnographic forum we have a great thread on restoration which hopefully and with more support could become a "Sticky" In my estimation rust has to be the big thing collectors want to eradicate and remove. Did you try dropping the lock into coke cola for a day or two? 0000 grain will shift it also. Olive oil is good as is Sewing Machine or gun oil. For worse rust lemon salt is good. Best preservation afterwards has to be antique preservation wax.(Renaissance Wax)

Aluminium foil ! Marvellous !!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 24th October 2011 at 04:50 PM. Reason: text
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Old 24th October 2011, 09:26 PM   #13
A. G. Maisey
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Yes, olive oil is good, with thick slices of crusty bread and a glass of good red wine.

But not for anything made of metal which one values.

Olive oil is mildly acidic.

Leave a coat of olive oil on a blued surface for long enough, and it will damage it.

There are neutral oils made specifically to protect firearms.
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