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Old 13th October 2010, 03:30 PM   #1
erikscollectables
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Default ID help needed on Sumatra sword

I recently got this small sword (blade is 40cm).
It originates from a weapons collection (both European and Ethnographic) that was collected before 1940. I was able to acquire some items.

This short sword I cannot identify positively.

My guess is Sumatra - possibly a Batak Andar Andar with a variation hilt - sukul jering. The handle is horn.

Who knows more - all input welcome!

Regards, Erik
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Old 13th October 2010, 07:40 PM   #2
kai
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Hello Erik,

A really intriguing sword!

Quote:
I recently got this small sword (blade is 40cm).
It originates from a weapons collection (both European and Ethnographic) that was collected before 1940. I was able to acquire some items.

My guess is Sumatra - possibly a Batak Andar Andar with a variation hilt - sukul jering. The handle is horn.

I'm fairly sure that this piece is not Batak: the blade doesn't show the narrowing base typical for shorter Batak swords (including the andar andar) and also the hilt doesn't look like a sukul jering variation to me (flared base, carving style, no eyes which ornate sukul jering always? exhibit).

I believe this originates from some Sumatran Muslim group, probably East coast rather than Aceh. The blade has keris-like base features like the pedang type 3 example shown in AvZ and the hilt also seems to be kinda intermediate between a pedang hilt and a hulu iku mie.

The laminated blade seems substantial and genuine - would love to see it etched!

Regards,
Kai
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Old 13th October 2010, 11:44 PM   #3
Nirghosa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
I recently got this small sword (blade is 40cm).
It originates from a weapons collection (both European and Ethnographic) that was collected before 1940. I was able to acquire some items.

This short sword I cannot identify positively.

My guess is Sumatra - possibly a Batak Andar Andar with a variation hilt - sukul jering. The handle is horn.

Who knows more - all input welcome!

Regards, Erik



My guess would be a Kalasan.
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Old 17th October 2010, 11:21 PM   #4
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For comparison:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1991

I have some training with this item and my teacher did learn it in Sumatra.
Ours also has the backcut tip/spine and there are movements that capitalize on this design aspect.
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Old 18th October 2010, 08:13 AM   #5
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Default Kalasan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirghosa
For comparison:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1991

I have some training with this item and my teacher did learn it in Sumatra.
Ours also has the backcut tip/spine and there are movements that capitalize on this design aspect.


Hi Nirghosa,

I have a few karo kalasans in my collection.
In my opinion this blade is quite different.
It does not have the S shape of the blade.
It does have more a blade similair to that of the andar andar. Slightly broader at the point and double edged.
It does not have the typical characteristics of a Batak blade near the handle though - instead it has a keris like feature that is also sometimes seen on pedangs from Sumatra.

Regards, Erik
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Old 18th October 2010, 10:37 PM   #6
Nirghosa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
Hi Nirghosa,

I have a few karo kalasans in my collection.
In my opinion this blade is quite different.
It does not have the S shape of the blade.
It does have more a blade similair to that of the andar andar. Slightly broader at the point and double edged.
It does not have the typical characteristics of a Batak blade near the handle though - instead it has a keris like feature that is also sometimes seen on pedangs from Sumatra.

Regards, Erik


agreed, it is intriguing. I agree, the handle and near the handle are not typical. But at first blush this was the closest thing (to me) I have seen to our Kalasan, and I have been looking for similar ones lately. That is why I say my first guess. Of course, my teacher learned from an elderly gentleman in the jungle, it could have just been his local variant.
Thanks for the insight Erik.
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