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Old 11th September 2010, 01:35 PM   #1
Sajen
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Default Small keris Bugis (?) from e-bay

Hello All,

I just received my last e-bay grab, here the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I am positive surprised, it's a nice and good worked small keris. The five luk blade is without pesi 26,5 cm (10.43 inch) long. The buntut of the sheath is long missing and the gandar is filled with resin and there is a carved circle at the end of the gandar.

What do you think, is it a pure bugis keris? Do you agree the the buntut have been a flat one? Which reason may have the carved circle?

All comments are welcome, thank's in advance.

Detlef
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Old 11th September 2010, 04:34 PM   #2
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Hi Detlef,

You must have an impressive filter/keyword on ebay to be able to find this (I remember not too long ago you have a good deal with ivory hilted keris), mind to share with us? Is it something like: old,kris -rubbish

I don't have any answer/opinion for your question, unfortunately, but congrats for this found!

PS. keep the filter secret
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Old 11th September 2010, 05:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunggulametung
You must have an impressive filter/keyword on ebay to be able to find this (I remember not too long ago you have a good deal with ivory hilted keris), mind to share with us? Is it something like: old,kris -rubbish

I think his keyword was simply "kris" as opposed to "keris". Most of us probably search with the latter spelling. Some sellers use both, but this auction appears to have just used "kris".
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Old 11th September 2010, 06:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I think his keyword was simply "kris" as opposed to "keris". Most of us probably search with the latter spelling. Some sellers use both, but this auction appears to have just used "kris".
Thanks for leaking the secret keyword

By the way I notice the line on the blade where the ganja-horizontal met the bilah-vertical is curved. Perhaps this help the next poster to identify or elaborate this feature belong to/unique identity of certain region, except of course other details that counts.

Thanks.
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Old 11th September 2010, 06:53 PM   #5
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Very nice wood grain on hilt.

The carved circle is most probably a buntut imitation.
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Old 11th September 2010, 08:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunggulametung
Hi Detlef,

You must have an impressive filter/keyword on ebay to be able to find this (I remember not too long ago you have a good deal with ivory hilted keris), mind to share with us? Is it something like: old,kris -rubbish

I don't have any answer/opinion for your question, unfortunately, but congrats for this found!

PS. keep the filter secret


Hi Chandra,

thank you! It's this time like David write, the key word have been "kris" and like Alan like to write it's also the "e-bay-gamble", the pictures haven't been very significant and it is also my "feeling" if it may be a good or bad gamble.

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 11th September 2010, 08:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Very nice wood grain on hilt.

The carved circle is most probably a buntut imitation.


Hello Gustav,

yes, the hilt seems to be carved from Kemuning. But the sarung have also a nice grain, I have cleaned it already and it look very nice. Tomorrow I will post some pictures.
That the circle shall be a buntut imitation is possible but when it is like this it is a later addition when the original one go lost. The carving isn't very fine and I don't think that it is from the mranggi who carved the sheath.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 12th September 2010, 05:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello Gustav,

yes, the hilt seems to be carved from Kemuning. But the sarung have also a nice grain, I have cleaned it already and it look very nice. Tomorrow I will post some pictures.
That the circle shall be a buntut imitation is possible but when it is like this it is a later addition when the original one go lost. The carving isn't very fine and I don't think that it is from the mranggi who carved the sheath.

Regards,

Detlef


I beleive that your sampir might be kemuning, there is no way of telling for sure unless you can show us pics of the sampir after you have clean it up. You may get wonderful chatoyance (Gehwang) after it is cleaned up & restored.

For your stem - Batang Serunai it is most probably of Sena wood, (Pterocarpus indicus) I think that is the scientific name that it is known as. It doesnt have as good a chatoyance affect as a kemuning but a respectable one. It is the choice of material for the stem Malay keris sheath. as it is lighter and believe to allow the blade to "breathe" better as oppose to the Sampir and Hulu that is usually made of kemuning and other hardwood that is beleive to have medicinal, spiritual and combat efficacy.

Which brings me to the subject of where this is from... My humble opinion is that judging from the shape of the sampr, if it is original to the piece, then the blade may be of a bugis variation from the peninsula... maybe up north. You may wish to get better insights from Alam & BlueErf on this tho. Be waiting for the restored pics...
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Old 12th September 2010, 05:05 AM   #9
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I might be wrong... but it looks like a bungkem piece at the gandek area there...
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Old 12th September 2010, 09:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG
I beleive that your sampir might be kemuning, there is no way of telling for sure unless you can show us pics of the sampir after you have clean it up. You may get wonderful chatoyance (Gehwang) after it is cleaned up & restored.

For your stem - Batang Serunai it is most probably of Sena wood, (Pterocarpus indicus) I think that is the scientific name that it is known as. It doesnt have as good a chatoyance affect as a kemuning but a respectable one. It is the choice of material for the stem Malay keris sheath. as it is lighter and believe to allow the blade to "breathe" better as oppose to the Sampir and Hulu that is usually made of kemuning and other hardwood that is beleive to have medicinal, spiritual and combat efficacy.

Which brings me to the subject of where this is from... My humble opinion is that judging from the shape of the sampr, if it is original to the piece, then the blade may be of a bugis variation from the peninsula... maybe up north. You may wish to get better insights from Alam & BlueErf on this tho. Be waiting for the restored pics...



Hello BigG,

thank's for comment. After cleaning the sarung I also think that the sampir is worked from Kemuning. I will post pictures in separate post.
Interesting that you determine the origin of the keris to Peninsula, have had the same feeling.

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 12th September 2010, 09:08 AM   #11
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Here pics from the cleaned sheath.
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Old 12th September 2010, 03:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Here pics from the cleaned sheath.


I am certain that the stem is sena... It is likely that the sampir is also a kemuning though the grain doesnt seem to be refine... and there isnt as nice patterning t the grain that is referred to as plots amongst M'sian keris collectors...
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Old 12th September 2010, 03:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
What do you think, is it a pure bugis keris? Do you agree the the buntut have been a flat one? Which reason may have the carved circle?
Detlef


The buntut is likely to be a flat one... similar in shape like the one I had drawn & given to you earlier...
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Old 12th September 2010, 03:44 PM   #14
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Hello BigG,

thank you for your further comments. Yes, the sampir hasn't the nice grain like the other one but it's better than to seen on the pictures. I start to clean the blade (not yet finished) and here some pics, also from the cleaned handle.
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Old 12th September 2010, 03:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello BigG,
I start to clean the blade (not yet finished) and here some pics


Better pictures... it is clear that this is not a bungkem piece...

The blade has fine crystaline structures... this is a form of decorative element similar to pamors. Many Malay blades have non contrasting metal combinations... the crystaline structures are termed as miangs. This is in reference to fine hairlike structures on bamboo leaves and stems that are a protective element/ It is highly irratable and causes extreme and maddening itches... The name that are given to the crystaline structures are derived from this. They are prized for talismanic as well as asthetics qualities just like pamors...
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Old 12th September 2010, 04:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello BigG,

thank you for your further comments... I start to clean the blade (not yet finished) and here some pics...


In my honest opinion the value of this blade lies in its quality as a fighting piece. ie... in Malay kerisology... though the keris has mutliple cultural functions as an artifact of material culture, and can be valued for asthetics, as well as talismanic reasons much like the Kejawen (Javanese influenced) pieces, its value as an effective weapon must not be underestimated. Pieces that do not have high asthetic points may score well in terms of its robustness and real or perceived efficacy as a weapon such as this blade.

Firstly, if am right in assuming that the sheath fits well and is original to the piece, then it would tell us a fair bit about the intended character of the keris as a whole. The sheath and hulu is made very functional with the prerequisites of a good fighting blade dressing all there. A functional hard wood material for the sampir and probably the huu too, without too much showiness in grains and decorative natural patternings... the sena stem again with minimum asthetics and also a prerequisite material for the dressing of a fighting blade and no ostentatious refinement to the sampir.

The blade has luk 5... effective fighting blades is usually deemed to be have between 3-5 blades. The blade is likely to be light in the hand but very sturdy. The width of the luks are not too deep and neither is it too shallow. Making it ideal for stabbing as well as slashing at very close quarters...

If you notice, the edges of the blades has rough serrated edges. These are not the results of weathering but deliberately designed to increase the efficacy of the blade in combat. Based on oral traditions of Malay Silat practitioners, seasoned collectors and academics who have done researched on this that I have met as well as my own experimentations, The serration would cause increase tissue trauma during the entry of the blade as well as during its exiting.

So congrats... a piece that lacks ostentatious refinements but a very good fighting man blade... no frills but likely to be deadly... probably a what is deemed by malay collectors as a "Bilah Berjasa", A Blade That Performed Its Intended Duty ... ie a blooded blade...
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Old 12th September 2010, 05:45 PM   #17
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I think that the sheath is the original one to the bilah, look the pic.
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Old 13th September 2010, 02:47 AM   #18
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Thks BigG for lengthy explanation on combat worthiness of this keris, and Malay/Bugis pieces in general.

Back in the olden days of Majapahit and Demak, Jawanese keris were indeed very effective weapons esp. in close quarter combat. These were described in many babads and kidungs. The difference between Malay and Jawanese fighting styles could be seen from the blade and hilt designs. Malay were more inclined towards stabbing techniques as opposed to Jawanese preferences on slashing/slicing techniques.
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Old 13th September 2010, 06:49 AM   #19
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Hello PenangsangII,

Quote:
The difference between Malay and Jawanese fighting styles could be seen from the blade and hilt designs. Malay were more inclined towards stabbing techniques as opposed to Jawanese preferences on slashing/slicing techniques.

On what data is this comparison based, please?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 13th September 2010, 07:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello PenangsangII,


On what data is this comparison based, please?

Regards,
Kai


Hi Kai,

No specific data obtained, the comparison is very general based on own experience in Malay/Bugis fighting style using keris (yes, the art is still alive in this part of the world) and Jawanese keris fighting style was based from several babads / kidungs. Slashing here doesnt mean cutting the opponent using the entire keris edge, slashes were made at the pucuk part of the keris (whisking/ light sweeping movement). The targets were usually opponent's neck, belly or anywhere we could lay eyes on)
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