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Old 8th November 2010, 04:29 AM   #91
BluErf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
BTW, I have got an old Coteng hilt (together with a keris) for my sheath.

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...RK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

And here the pictures from the well known seller.


Nice blade! It deserves a proper dress. Try to get one commissioned in N. Malaysia!
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Old 8th November 2010, 05:35 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Sajen, this comment is not specifically directed at the hilt you have purchased, however, I've had a look at the items this seller lists for sale, and I was wondering exactly what sort of time span permits the description "old".

+100 years?

+ 50 years?

+ 20 years?

+ 5 years?

+ 12 months?

+24 hours?

Anybody have any ideas on what length of time makes "old" an acceptable description?



Alan, I read a little bit in some pages at the net to get some informations. Antique is on the most pages described by an age fom 100 years + but also for example by furniture of Art Deco periode which can't be old like this.
Since antique is old in latin language and you want to take it by the word have to be "old" more than 100 years old.
But when you look to other items which are collected by people and often described as "old" you can't use this parameter.
I am with Kai Wee by this, twenty years can be "old".
I have had a look again to the sold items from this seller and I think that most of the items are described as old are more than 50 years old. But I have to say that I can be wrong by this since the pictures are not very clear.
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Old 8th November 2010, 06:05 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
I am with Kai Wee by this, twenty years can be "old".

I think that we need to discuss this question in regards to keris, not furniture or for that matter the moldy "old" tub of hummus sitting in the back of the fridge.
I don't think i would ever refer to a 20 year old keris as "old". I would probably call it "contemporary".
I would also like to remind everyone that Alan's question is an independent one, not based on this seller's eBay list. Let's keep the seller out of the conversation please.
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Old 8th November 2010, 08:23 PM   #94
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David, I'm afraid that I am compelled to mention the seller again.

My original post where I mentioned the seller's other items was out of order.

I apologise unreservedly for this.

I was and am unaware of the seller's identity, and when I went to ebay and clicked "sellers other items" I got a list of items that I have since found were not related in any way to the seller of Sajen's hilt.

However, although this ebay glitch did cause an error in the wording of my original post, I do consider the question I raised a valid one, but in no way related to Sajen's hilt, nor to the seller of it.
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Old 8th November 2010, 08:42 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
David, I'm afraid that I am compelled to mention the seller again.

My original post where I mentioned the seller's other items was out of order.

I apologise unreservedly for this.

I was and am unaware of the seller's identity, and when I went to ebay and clicked "sellers other items" I got a list of items that I have since found were not related in any way to the seller of Sajen's hilt.

However, although this ebay glitch did cause an error in the wording of my original post, I do consider the question I raised a valid one, but in no way related to Sajen's hilt, nor to the seller of it.

Agreed Alan. Good topic for discussion. Let's continue...
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Old 8th November 2010, 10:00 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluErf
Nice blade! It deserves a proper dress. Try to get one commissioned in N. Malaysia!


Hallo Kai Wee, do you think that the dress which coming with the blade isn't a proper dress as well?
And what you think about the Coteng hilt?
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Old 8th November 2010, 10:12 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I think that we need to discuss this question in regards to keris, not furniture or for that matter the moldy "old" tub of hummus sitting in the back of the fridge.
I don't think i would ever refer to a 20 year old keris as "old". I would probably call it "contemporary".
I would also like to remind everyone that Alan's question is an independent one, not based on this seller's eBay list. Let's keep the seller out of the conversation please.



Agree complete with you that a twenty years "old" keris is a contemporary keris. What I want to say with my previous post is that it can be a matter of opinion and the item by it's own what is declared as "old" or "antique".
And again in regards to keris I would say that it is ok to declare a 50 years old keris as old or older.
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Old 8th November 2010, 11:55 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hallo Kai Wee, do you think that the dress which coming with the blade isn't a proper dress as well?
And what you think about the Coteng hilt?

Not Kai Wee of course but i would say that the sheath that came with this most certainly is not correct and that the pendokok also needs replacing as it is the wrong form and too large for the hilt.
Hopefully when you recieve this you can post some better photos of the hilt and blade. The Coteng hilt appears authentic and of some age (whatever that means ), but the photos are really poor and making any real assessments here is difficult.
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Old 9th November 2010, 12:39 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Not Kai Wee of course but i would say that the sheath that came with this most certainly is not correct and that the pendokok also needs replacing as it is the wrong form and too large for the hilt.
Hopefully when you recieve this you can post some better photos of the hilt and blade. The Coteng hilt appears authentic and of some age (whatever that means ), but the photos are really poor and making any real assessments here is difficult.



Every comment is welcome! That the pendokok isn't the correct form is clearly to seen. But you are right, let us wait until I have received the keris and I can take some pictures from the hilt and also pictures how the blade fit inside the sheath. But I am hopeful that all parts are with good age and to my eyes it seems that all parts are from Peninsula.
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Old 9th November 2010, 10:26 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hallo Kai Wee, do you think that the dress which coming with the blade isn't a proper dress as well?
And what you think about the Coteng hilt?
The dress is not appropriate for the hilt or blade.. The blade looks Pattani to me.. a nice blade indeed, (a pity I couldn't get it myself). The blade deserves new fittings in classic Pattani form. A 'tebeng' sheath with a Pekaka hilt would look appropriate. The hilt ring can be reused with the new hilt. The nice Coteng hilt can sit by itself on a hilt stand, if there's nothing matching for it.. The Malay Bugis sheath, you could try with your Malay Bugis (Terengganu) blade.. the one with the broken kembang kacang.. (just a suggestion).
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Old 9th November 2010, 11:54 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
The dress is not appropriate for the hilt or blade.. The blade looks Pattani to me.. a nice blade indeed, (a pity I couldn't get it myself). The blade deserves new fittings in classic Pattani form. A 'tebeng' sheath with a Pekaka hilt would look appropriate. The hilt ring can be reused with the new hilt. The nice Coteng hilt can sit by itself on a hilt stand, if there's nothing matching for it.. The Malay Bugis sheath, you could try with your Malay Bugis (Terengganu) blade.. the one with the broken kembang kacang.. (just a suggestion).


Alam, thank you very much for your comment. Blade look Pattani to me also but I have thought that the dress (sheath) is Pattani also. Please can show me a example of a tebeng sheath?
The Coteng hilt I want to use together with the Malay Bugis blade (the one with the broken kembang kacang) with my Coteng sheath from #3 in this thread. Do you think that this is matching?
Thank you again and best regards,

Detlef
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Old 9th November 2010, 03:11 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
.. Please can show me a example of a tebeng sheath?
The Coteng hilt I want to use together with the Malay Bugis blade (the one with the broken kembang kacang) with my Coteng sheath from #3 in this thread. Do you think that this is matching?
Thank you again and best regards,

Detlef

Example of a 'tebeng' sheath form..
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attac...tid=55973&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=99490

The Coteng hilt is not matching with the Malay Bugis blade..
If possible, try to get a 'chenok' type blade.. see attached linked pic.

(Paul De Souza's example)..
Hope it helps..
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Old 9th November 2010, 05:39 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
Example of a 'tebeng' sheath form..
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attac...tid=55973&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=99490

The Coteng hilt is not matching with the Malay Bugis blade..
If possible, try to get a 'chenok' type blade.. see attached linked pic.

(Paul De Souza's example)..
Hope it helps..


Puhhhhhhhh, the Malay keris world is very confusing for me!
Special to to differentiate between the Bugis-style sampirs is very very difficult for me, maybe I start a own thread for this since I think that I am not the only confused member.
The blade with the broken kembang kacang coming with a other Malay sheath. But it's apparent that they don't belong together since the blade is to strong/thick for the sampir. I think that this Sampir is a Terengganu style sampir. See pictures.
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Old 9th November 2010, 11:14 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
.. The blade with the broken kembang kacang coming with a other Malay sheath. But it's apparent that they don't belong together since the blade is to strong/thick for the sampir. I think that this Sampir is a Terengganu style sampir. See pictures.
Yes, this is a nice Terengganu style sampir, with a missing 'buntut', sheath bottom end-piece. This sheath is also suitable for the blade with the broken kembang kacang (belalai gajah).. just need a hilt and a hilt ring.. See sample here, ((link ))

Last edited by Alam Shah : 9th November 2010 at 11:30 PM. Reason: add link
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Old 10th November 2010, 07:53 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
Yes, this is a nice Terengganu style sampir, with a missing 'buntut', sheath bottom end-piece. This sheath is also suitable for the blade with the broken kembang kacang (belalai gajah).. just need a hilt and a hilt ring.. See sample here, ((link ))



Hello Alam, I am a little bit pacified since it seems that I have learned here already. Thank you for the nice example you have showed.
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:59 PM   #106
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I received some days ago the keris with the Coteng hilt. The keris byself I will show later in a seperate thread since I think it's a very outstanding one. Until now it wasn't possible to open the hilt from the blade, I think this will need some days by candlelight!
But here some first pictures of the Coteng hilt. After some research here and in Spirit of Wood I think that it is a very old Coteng hilt, for example it's missing the hiasan badan carvings at the sides. It's a very plain example with a straight nose. It seems also that the hilt have get a coat of varnish by time over his old patination.

Please let me know what you think about this hilt. Thank you very much in advance and enjoy the pictures.
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Old 20th May 2013, 08:33 PM   #107
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Just want to show the restored sheath.
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Old 30th September 2013, 06:32 AM   #108
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Nice work!

Still, the sheath is blade-less until now? That's a three-years' celibacy indeed
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Old 30th September 2013, 08:05 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshah
Nice work!

Still, the sheath is blade-less until now? That's a three-years' celibacy indeed



Yes, still blade-less! Can need three years more!
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