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Old 7th December 2008, 12:34 AM   #1
celtan
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Default 1807 Mameluke of the Imperial Guard?

1807 Mameluke of the Imperial Guard?

I don't think so...




IMPO: turkish shamshir..?
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Old 7th December 2008, 06:30 PM   #2
Jim McDougall
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Hi Manuel,
I'm curious where the Mamluk of the Guard suggestion comes from, is this the identification captioned with this? is this your weapon, or from some other source?
In any case, I agree this munitions grade piece with cast brass hilt would not be a weapon used in an elite regiment of French cavalry. The hollow ground military blade, from what I can see, would not be a shamshir though.

It would be interesting to see the entire weapon if possible, as this reminds me of some type of interpretation of a military sabre with mameluke style hilt.

All the best,
Jim
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Old 7th December 2008, 10:34 PM   #3
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Howdy Jim,

No, not mine. The present owner has it labeled as such. Either out of a whimsical interpretation, or because he was fooled. I don't think he does it out of a desire to fool others, unless he does so merely to impress.

I can take more pics if you like.

Best

M


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
Hi Manuel,
I'm curious where the Mamluk of the Guard suggestion comes from, is this the identification captioned with this? is this your weapon, or from some other source?
In any case, I agree this munitions grade piece with cast brass hilt would not be a weapon used in an elite regiment of French cavalry. The hollow ground military blade, from what I can see, would not be a shamshir though.

It would be interesting to see the entire weapon if possible, as this reminds me of some type of interpretation of a military sabre with mameluke style hilt.

All the best,
Jim
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Old 8th December 2008, 03:24 AM   #4
Jim McDougall
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Thanks Manuel, it would be interesting to see the complete weapon if not too much trouble, it does have me curious what type of blade this is. The swords carried by the Mamluks were beautiful sabres, so much so that they influenced generations of military officers swords in various countries.
I do not wish to demean this weapon, only to observe it is far to simple, especially with cast brass hilt, to be of these elite units, and I'm not aware of any Ottoman swords using cast brass, nor using these military blades.

All the best,
Jim
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Old 19th December 2008, 05:40 PM   #5
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75th Rifles scottish musician's sword?

ottoman, egyptian, indian?









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Old 20th December 2008, 12:19 PM   #6
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Actually this simply cast 'Mamluk' style hilt does suggest some of the earlier musicians swords of post Napoleonic period, though I'm not sure of this one being specific to a regiment, at least not identifiably.
I finally found my copy of Robson! ("Swords of the British Army" 1975) where he notes on p.167, "...the peculiar position of regimental bandsmen in the 18th century and the early part of the 19th century meant, as a corollary, that there were originally no standard patterns for them", and that by 1800 there was a 'broad' uniformity developing with 'solid brass mameluke hilt', most of which typically had zoomorphic pommels.
It is noted that there were similar hilts in use by the French army at that time. These were likely influenced by the 1798 French expedition to Egypt and the subsequent British campaign there in 1801.

The integrally cast brass styling of this hilt seems very much like swords of these types, and as noted may suggest this sword to be either French or British of early 19th century, and distinctly reflecting the Ottoman hilt forms seen in Egypt during the described events.

All best regards,
Jim
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Old 20th December 2008, 03:23 PM   #7
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Thanks Jim, as always, your comments make for very pleasant reading.

BTW; Before 2008 is over, I need to acknowledge the excellent work you have been performing as moderator and scholarly participant of our forum.

Huzzah for Jim!

Best regards

Manolo




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
Actually this simply cast 'Mamluk' style hilt does suggest some of the earlier musicians swords of post Napoleonic period, though I'm not sure of this one being specific to a regiment, at least not identifiably.
I finally found my copy of Robson! ("Swords of the British Army" 1975) where he notes on p.167, "...the peculiar position of regimental bandsmen in the 18th century and the early part of the 19th century meant, as a corollary, that there were originally no standard patterns for them", and that by 1800 there was a 'broad' uniformity developing with 'solid brass mameluke hilt', most of which typically had zoomorphic pommels.
It is noted that there were similar hilts in use by the French army at that time. These were likely influenced by the 1798 French expedition to Egypt and the subsequent British campaign there in 1801.

The integrally cast brass styling of this hilt seems very much like swords of these types, and as noted may suggest this sword to be either French or British of early 19th century, and distinctly reflecting the Ottoman hilt forms seen in Egypt during the described events.

All best regards,
Jim
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Old 20th December 2008, 04:34 PM   #8
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Thank you so much Manolo for such kind words!!! Actually the pleasure is all mine, as I enjoy the discussions we all have here as we learn together.
Its fantastic that our new forum has been so successful, and I'm really looking forward to our new year together!!

Huzzah for us all Manolo!!!! and thank you again!

All the very best,
Jim
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Old 19th March 2010, 04:28 PM   #9
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"As time goes on, I realize..."

Reviving ye ole thread


Found on EBay: 1st Empire Mamluke. For Turkish Allies? Officer's version?









Our Original picture, purportedly showing a sword from the "1st Empire Mamlukes of the Guard, with probably replaced blade".

Compatible to description: Note similar hilts, but different blades.




Last edited by celtan : 19th March 2010 at 05:39 PM.
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