Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 13th January 2014, 10:45 AM   #1
Matchlock
Member
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,284
Default 1417 - The World's Oldest Dated Handgun!!!

This highly important and finely wrought iron tiller gun is preserved in the Museo Storico della Caccia, Villa Medici, in Cerreto Guidi, near Florence, Northern Italy.

It is hardly known in weaponry and shaped like a fire breathing sea serpent or dragon in the characteristic Italian taste over all its length, the wrought-iron tiller terminating in a swamped knob. The barrel is wrought as the serpent's head, with ears, eyes, teeth and mouth all clearly defined!
The museum interprets its shape as that of a wolf's head. Given the fact though that the muzzle of a gun would literally breathe fire, the embodiment of a sea dragon or monster is much more probable.
Its length is 99 cm overall, the bore is 20 mm.

The date 1417 is, due to its late High-Gothic period of manufacture, at the very threshold to the Italian Early Renaissance, still represented by Gothic miniscules in the Latin tradition of writing numerals, becoming obsolete in the early 15th century:


+ m c c c c x v i i -


This stunning sample sort of 'downgrades' my fine Munich/Passau barrel dated 1481 to being 'only' the second oldest dated handgun of the world:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7107



Best,
Michael
Attached Images
     

Last edited by Matchlock : 13th January 2014 at 11:00 AM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2014, 11:27 AM   #2
Marcus den toom
Member
 
Marcus den toom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 264
Default

Hi Michael,

I thoughed the roman numerals only allowed 3 of the same figures in a row? That is how i learned it in 4th grade (when i was 10 years old, so i might be mistaken).

So the 1417 date should read MCDXVII?

Either way, an impressive find.. though i like the munich barrel better.

edit: i read on wikipedia (not always a reliable source) that the notation of roman numerals varried greatly. The use of 4 or more of the same number is apparantly allowed.
Marcus den toom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2014, 01:24 PM   #3
Matchlock
Member
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,284
Default

Hi Marcus,


Wikipedia, as usually, is right: the Latin/Roman way of representing numerals and dates greatly varies and often depends ... E.g., on epitaphs you sometimes find remarkable variations that only allow to conclude the correct reading of a certain date from additional biographical information provided by the inscription.

This is also true for the general (incorrect and rural) use of Latin as a language.


Also note a frequently employed mixture of the Latin and Arabic numerals in the early 15th century; attached is the sample of the founding inscription of the Church of the Holy Spirit (Heilig-Geist-Kirche) in Landshut, Lower Bavaria, where the founding date 1407 is composed of the Roman m for the cypher 1 while the rest is written in Arabic numerals!


Best,
Michael
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Matchlock : 13th January 2014 at 01:42 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2014, 12:25 PM   #4
Matchlock
Member
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,284
Default

Editing of post #1:

Of course, the correct reading is minuscule (German Minuskel), instead of what I typed: miniscule.

Sorry, and best,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2014, 12:36 PM   #5
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 4,622
Default

Oh, that is a minuscule fault
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2014, 12:46 PM   #6
Matchlock
Member
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,284
Default

Brilliant pun, you rascal!

Michl
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2014, 12:52 PM   #7
Matchlock
Member
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,284
Default

All photos in this thread are copyrighted by either the author of the thread, Matchlock, or the authors of the respective posts, except mentioned otherwise.
They may not be used except by written permission from the author.
All rights reserved.
Infringements will be pursued legally.

Michael

Last edited by Matchlock : 24th May 2014 at 06:29 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.