Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th June 2009, 05:00 PM   #1
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default Early Wheel-Locks and Their Spanners

Two fine military wheel-lock muskets from my collection, the upper with 'high tech' combined wheel- and snap matchlock, Suhl, Thuringia, dated 1602, the lower Nuremberg, ca. 1600; both preserved in near mint condition throughout. Below a detached, very early wheel-lock, North Italian, ca. 1535.

And a few of my earliest wheel-lock spanners, the dating range comprising the 1520's to up to ca. 1560.

From left to right:

ca. 1520's, combined spanner and priming flask

ca. 1560, combined spanner, screw driver and priming flask

ca. 1530, North Italian


Right, from top to bottom:

each ca. 1540, combined spanners and screw drivers. Those little guys were kept in the butt traps of short wheel-lock harquebuses, so that's what those early 'patch boxes' actually contained.

Michael
Attached Images
         
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2009, 04:44 PM   #2
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 893
Default who knows the maker HG?

herewith one puffer from my collection.
Nuremberg town mark and men with hat mark, 1570.

the maker mark HG at the lock is unknown to me, maybe somebody can help out?

best
Attached Images
       
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2009, 05:14 PM   #3
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Cornelis,

Thank you so much for posting that fine and early Nuremberg puffer. Judging by the style of the hop umbles inlay, by the leaf shaped endings of the lock springs and by the head and pointed hat mark on the barrel, I should date this pistol even as early as the second half of the 1560's. There are various similar but mostly Augsburg made puffers in the Historic Museum Geneva, cf. Godoy: Armes à feu XVe-XVIIe siècle, as well as in the Landeszeughaus Graz, cf. Robert Brooker: Landeszeughaus Graz, Wheellock Collection, 2007.

Unfortunately I could not find any records on that special lock maker's mark. Athough there are several Nuremberg marks showing the lily motif and the initials HG in Stockel none of them is identical to that on your piece. It my be a closely related Nuremberg workshop mark, though.

Would you mind posting another two pics showing the whole puffer from both the lock and counter lock side?

Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2009, 06:09 PM   #4
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 893
Default

Hi Michael,

thank you, I also could not find the marks

at the moment the puffer is at a friend collector who does a small restoration for me ( a piece of leaf inlay at the front is partly missing)
I will list more pics end of June.

regards from Holland
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2009, 03:38 PM   #5
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Hi Cornelis,

Thank you so much for posting that fine and early Nuremberg puffer. Judging by the style of the hop umbles inlay, by the leaf shaped endings of the lock springs and by the head and pointed hat mark on the barrel, I should date this pistol even as early as the second half of the 1560's. There are various similar but mostly Augsburg made puffers in the Historic Museum Geneva, cf. Godoy: Armes à feu XVe-XVIIe siècle, as well as in the Landeszeughaus Graz, cf. Robert Brooker: Landeszeughaus Graz, Wheellock Collection, 2007.

Unfortunately I could not find any records on that special lock maker's mark. Athough there are several Nuremberg marks showing the lily motif and the initials HG in Stockel none of them is identical to that on your piece. It my be a closely related Nuremberg workshop mark, though.

Would you mind posting another two pics showing the whole puffer from both the lock and counter lock side?

Michael


Hi Michael,

Herewith some more foto's

Best regards
Attached Images
     
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2009, 04:26 PM   #6
Emanuel
Member
 
Emanuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
Default

I must say Michael and Cornelis, you give me a newfound appreciation for guns, their history and the intricacies of their development. The passion you put into the study of every part is inspiring.

Many thanks!
Emanuel
Emanuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2009, 04:35 PM   #7
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 6,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel
I must say Michael and Cornelis, you give me a newfound appreciation for guns, their history and the intricacies of their development. The passion you put into the study of every part is inspiring.

Many thanks!
Emanuel


Absolutely agree Emanuel! Both of these gentlemen are consistantly amazing as they share thier passion for these rarest of firearms with us here. Each installment of breathtaking photos is accompanied by keen attention to even the smallest of details, and as in this thread, information on a true rarity, the spanners on these wheellocks. The knowledge imparted here is magnificent.

I know next to nothing on these firearms, but I know that like me, many are paying close attention, and we are definitely learning, from two incredible professors!!
Thank you so much Michael and Cornelis!!!

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2009, 07:11 PM   #8
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
Absolutely agree Emanuel! Both of these gentlemen are consistantly amazing as they share thier passion for these rarest of firearms with us here. Each installment of breathtaking photos is accompanied by keen attention to even the smallest of details, and as in this thread, information on a true rarity, the spanners on these wheellocks. The knowledge imparted here is magnificent.

I know next to nothing on these firearms, but I know that like me, many are paying close attention, and we are definitely learning, from two incredible professors!!
Thank you so much Michael and Cornelis!!!

All the best,
Jim


Thank you both Emanuel and Jim for the nice motivating compliments.
compared to Michael's knowledge of 16thC arms I'm absolutely the student and not the professor, his detailed knowledge of 16thc characteristics is amazing.
Compared to Jim's ability to write articles like poetry, I have to classify myself below the student level. I really appreciate to have met you guys on this forum.

regards from Holland
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 02:19 PM   #9
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Cornelis,

Thanks a lot for these overall views! Very beautiful and early puffer!

Gentlemen, once more you made me blush.

I am glad to have been given the opportunity to join our forum and have regarded it as a game of give and take ever since. Believe me, the more specific knowledge you have amassed the lonelier you get. So again, it's really great to have you out there.

With all my very best wishes as always,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th July 2009, 07:59 PM   #10
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 893
Default

the lock mechanism.
Attached Images
 
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th July 2009, 09:52 PM   #11
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Thanks, Cornelis,

I have actually been waiting for exactly this.

Well done, pal, your puffer was definitely made shortly before 1570!!!

Best,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2009, 05:30 PM   #12
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

It is obvious that the inner side of the lock plate even retains its original blueing, now mostly faded to gray.

Michael
Attached Images
 
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2009, 08:58 PM   #13
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 893
Default

Hi Michael,

thank you for your comments on the lock, what amazes me is that this 1570 lock looks like it has been designed recently on a computer, all the small fragile parts (chain) are protected by disc and plate.also all the springs are "hidden" or don't look like springs. for a Wheelock mechanism really a masterpiece.

regards from Holland
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2009, 09:46 PM   #14
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Cornelis,

Imagine: this kind of perfectly thought out interior lock design was actually in wide use in the big firearms centers all out thru Nuremberg, Augsburg, Munich, Suhl, and Regensburg (all Bavarian except Suhl, which of course is in Thuringia) since the 1550's!
(With slight differences in the earlier years, of course ...)

Best from Bavaria, and tipping my next dark beer to Holland and one of its masters of great private collections ,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2014, 04:29 PM   #15
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default


Last edited by Matchlock : 24th May 2014 at 05:56 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.