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Old 16th May 2009, 11:57 PM   #61
A. G. Maisey
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The people to whom this type of hilt was and is most attractive are those with a strong belief in the esoteric.
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Old 17th May 2009, 01:04 AM   #62
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Thanks Alan for posting this most interesting piece. How much do you think it has been 'altered' from its native state? (By altered I mean carved). This piece is much more sophisticated than your average bit of tree branch, it looks like roots or vines were wrapped around it as it grew and it has that sense of a respectful bow about it.

It raises a question for me. Is it possible that the most primitive of keris hilts were all just a bent piece of tree root or similar? Given what is known about the first appearance of the keris compared to the development of the plastic arts at the same time this seems unlikely, but I would appreciate others opinions?

drdavid

We get interesting root forms from under the sand roads here on Cape Cod .
Here's one I altered a bit, (3 faces, cloven hoof) that I found in the woods on an old cart path in Wellfleet 30 years ago .
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Old 17th May 2009, 01:51 AM   #63
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David, as far as I can see there has been virtually no real carving of this hilt, but there has been cleaning up and finishing, of course the ferrule area has been regularised to allow fitting.

The modern keris developed from a fairly refined dagger used in an overhand action. I am certain that the original hilts used for the early versions of the modern keris would have been at least as refined as their predecessors. This is borne out by the comments in the Ying-yai Sheng-lan, which dates from about 1416.

This type of natural hilt is not indicative of a line of development, but rather of the esoteric beliefs of humanity.
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Old 10th August 2010, 09:23 PM   #64
Jussi M.
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Up!

Is this thread not a candidate for becoming a "classic"?



Thanks,

J.
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Old 10th August 2010, 09:46 PM   #65
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Done, and thanks !
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Old 11th August 2010, 05:16 PM   #66
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Default Palembang Pagaralam

Another example, almost similar -- but of course not the same -- as Alan's. A friend of mine, a Palembang origin gentleman, called this style of hilt as "Palembang Pagaralam" hilt. Simple form, almost like "natural" bending wood... According to this Palembang gentleman, Pagaralam style geographically from between Palembang (South Sumatra) and Padang (West Sumatra)...

Another thread, related to Jawa Demam discussion:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ight=jawa+demam

GANJAWULUNG
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Old 16th August 2010, 01:00 AM   #67
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And i guess here's the link to the natural ones.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11822
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Old 17th August 2010, 08:31 PM   #68
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@Aji, Thanks for reminding me on the name of this hilt,

I am still tracing the original name of this kind of hilt, that you mentioned in another thread as "gana hilt". It could be possible that your information is correct, if we consider that the literaly meaning of "gana" is more or less, "a flock of lower grade of gods, or demigods which once believed to be Shiwa's follower, headed by ganesha..." according to PJ Zoetmulder & SO Robson...

As I mentioned another name, "pagaralam hilt" of course, if we consider the locality. It is more "geographical name", as my Sumatran friend called this type of hilt.

Pagaralam itself, is a semi-autonomous region in South Sumatra -- Between Palembang (South Sumatra) and Padang (West Sumatra). More precisely, Pagaralam is an 636.000 square meter autonomous region of Lahat, with a population of about 119.000 people. It consists of five districts: Dempo Selatan (or South Dempo), Dempo Tengah (Central Dempo), Dempo Utara (North Dempo), Pagaralam Selatan (South Pagaralam) and Pagaralam Utara (North Pagaralam).

This special South Sumatran region at the foot of Mt Dempo has a couple of archaeological sites, with more than 26 menhir sites (megalithicum sites), some sites of palaeolithical statues and at least 33 natural water falls... (according to a certain source).

Anyway, thanks a lot Aji, for your very useful info...

GANJAWULUNG

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