Great Helm late 14th century ?

[Jean-Marc S.]

Thanks Senefelder

[Jim McDougall]

I knew Alan would have an excellent entry on this, and since this is not at all my field, I wanted to do some research anyway, It is a great opportunity to see one of these rare but distinctive helms, which seem to often be depicted in many illustrations of the knight, it appears on the logo for the Danish Arms & Armour Society.

It would be interesting to know more on exactly what auction and date this one is provenanced. One of these, appararantly considered authentic, was sold by Sothebys, London, 21 May 1974, #185 to the Royal Armouries, and had been owned by Peter Dale Ltd.
It was published in Journal of the Arms & Armour Society in June, 1977, Vol.IX, #1, "An Unrecorded English Helm c.1370" by Derek Spalding (pp.6-9)

Apparantly up to 1974, only two of these helms of this date/period with English provenance were recorded. The most famed of these was the helm of this same form of Edward , Prince of Wales (The Black Prince) c.1376, held in Canterbury Cathedral.
The second (for which the form is apparantly named) is that of Sir Richard Pembridge c.1375, originally at Hereford Cathedral but then to the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh.
The helm of this article is apparantly suggested by Mr. Spalding to be the third helm of this particular 'great helm' form from this specific period.

I am wondering what the source is for the illustrations of the Pembridge helm against a replica posted here. While there are of course a number of modern reproductions of this famous form, it is known that in the 19th century (about 1830s-1878) a Samuel Lake Pratt in London was dealing in then modernly produced items including these type helms (made by someone named Grimshaw). This according to Spalding's footnotes is referenced in "The Knight and Umbrella" by Ian Anstruther, 1963.

It seems I recall an example of one of these 'great helms' among the holdings at the armoury at Castel Sant Angelo at the Vatican as well, but as yet have not found that reference.

This is a fascinating example of these famed helms, and I look forward to hearing more from Jean-Marc and Alan regarding the information from this 1977 article.

All best regards,
Jim


** Found the Castel sant Angelo reference
" Archaeology of Weapons" Ewart Oakeshott, London 1960
p. 263, a great helm from Bozen (S. Tyrol) c.1280-1310 (fig. 129)
This one has a flat top and riveted band, the 'breathing holes' in pattern on the front sides are T shaped, and this seems to be a German type.

There was another article written in these I believe in "Man at Arms" magazine, but as yet have not located.

[Jean-Marc S.]

Thanks Jim for all this interesting information. I just got this great helm from a long time collector, who purchased it from a specialized dealer in 1993. It was previously sold at Sotheby's or Christie's auction a decade before, at 8,000 £ (from memory, he did not remember exactly which auction and is currently looking for the corresponding catalog page among his tons of papers; I will let you know ASAP).
To Jim: The link to the photo has been provided in my previous post

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Jean-Marc,
In looking at the photos of the helm you have posted against those in the example published in 1977 I have described, there are remarkable similarities which might even suggest these could have been from the same workshop. In the published one (sold at Sothebys in 1974) there is a hook or some type of fixture atop the dome, where the one you post there is a hook resembling some type of belt hook if I see it correctly at the back, while the dome seems unappended.

With this I would estimate this one to be contemporary (based on visual assessment) to those which are as noted English and of about 1370. This may be essentially a fourth of the type from this particular dating, and as noted possibly from the workshop of the one to the Royal Armouries in 1977. Naturally my opinion would defer to those here far better versed in armour, Alan being probably the most experienced.

All the best,
Jim

[A Senefelder]

Jim, Henry the V helmet has the same piece on the back of it. Pics here http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.12798.html . These helmets are not " light ", Henry's I believe is something like 16-17 pounds so that bracket at the back being a belt loop seems unlikely for at least that example. In tournaments, it was not uncommon to secure a re-enfocing plate on the left side of the helmet. I have wondered if these brackets may have been for securing this tournament re-enforcing piece.

[Jean-Marc S.]

Thanks Jim and Alan for the interesting information, and links to these nice documented great helms.

What stroke me first was the dark, brownish black metal color of my great helm, which is very similar to the color of the documented 14th century English great helms, such as the one of Sir Richard Pembridge: there is some light corrosion to the metal with a sort of surface coating of hard black oxide. In my opinion, this should be noted as most helmets from the period are often seen 'bright' metal.

[Jim McDougall]

Alan, I apparantly did not respond to your post concerning the curious appendage at the back of the helmet, and quite honestly that fixture has continued to perplex me ever since. Actually I did not mean of course that this was a belt hook but it reminded me of one in its appearance. You are quite right, jousting armor was quite heavy, and it seems apparant that the helm at Henry V's tomb at Westminster is an item of this type.

I have discovered more on the funerary achievements at Henry's tomb, and it does seem that some of the items were 'disturbed' during the Reformation, and there are certain reservations whether the helm and the sword are actually his or perhaps replacements. One reference even claimed there was a dent in the helm received at Agincourt, which seems odd as this was a jousting helm, not a combat one.
Another reference noted that at some point after the helm was placed at the tomb originally it was in some disrepair and damage at the peak of it was repaired and crest removed. It is noted in this discussion that at this point the helm was rehung with the iron hook affixed at the back.

This would suggest that these 'hooks' were probably fixtures attached to helms which had become funerary achievements in churches tombs, much as the case with Henry V's helm.

In an article in "The Connoisseur" (1902, Vo. 3. p.38, unnamed author) it notes that armour found in churches has often been tinkered with and adapted to funeral purposes even when not necessarily belonging to panoply of the interred.

I am inclined to think that perhaps this helm shown by Jean-Marc may be an authentic combat helm which later became a funerary achievement, suggested by the hook at back. It seems that affixing the helm in normal cases to the rest of the harness was through attached loops at front and back at base, or often by the T or cross apertures at the face which received a toggled chain.

Just wanted to add this additional info which I have found over the past week in various entries. Also, armor in these times was actually not bright but the metal treated in various ways, sometimes even painted, to prevent or at least dissuade rust. One method was fire bluing, but also used was 'russeting' or browning which promoted uniform but controlled rusting which could be checked.