A Beautiful Mid-14th Century Handgonne

Matchlock · 6th July 2010, 06:34 PM

First more of the two stone balls and the stone hand grenade in my collection.

Next a small stone gun (German Steinbüchse) retaining its original oaken carriage (German Lafette); the wood, on the basis of the South German oak chronology, is datable to ca. 1460 or later - who would have assumed such a comparatively 'late' date?! Note the fixation by means of two iron clamps which is also shown on contemporary illustrations. This type of carriage, as seen in several 15th sentury documents, was originally fixed pivotable on a large round wooden base which sometimes even had a quadrant for more exact adjustment (see following posts).

This Steinbüchse, preserved in The Museum of Weißenburg, Bavaria, measures 61.3 cm overall, barrel length 31.6 cm overall, length of ball chamber (Flug) 26.0 cm, caliber at muzzle 5.6 cm, narrowing to the rear.

m

Matchlock · 6th July 2010, 07:19 PM

More:

The upper three, including a sectional drawing, of two Steinbüchsen in the Historic Museum Berne, Switzerland; the carriages are late 19th century replacements when these pieces were still in the famous collection of Robert Forrer who then handed everything down to the Museum, which 'gratefully' has not been exhibiting anything since WW II.

Alexander, I am afraid that have no X-radiography of such handgonnes but I do hope the sectional drawing and detailed photography will do. I some of the photos you can even see the banded iron coming off in thin layers as a consequence or rust and the great age of these pieces.

Now on it goes with the beautiful and completely preserved Weißenburg gun.
Note the fixation of the barrel by two pivoted iron clamps which can also be seen in early 15th century illustrations attached.
Please also note that the touchhole is larger now and has moved definitely forward of the rear end of the breech - also a criterion for dating the piece to the second half of the 15th century. Please bear in mind that there usually is a remarkable delay in the development of time-proven forms and techniques in rural areas as compared with the big leading city centers.

m

Spiridonov · 6th July 2010, 07:34 PM

The touch hole of last gun is too wide. How to explane it?
By the way about the manual weapon i have a theory (I will wright it later)
But i have not explanation for this case.
p/s
Michael, please look at your privat messege (i have some x-rays of bombards)

Matchlock · 6th July 2010, 07:37 PM

The rest of the Weißenburg Steinbüchse.

Of course, due to its relatively late date of manufacture, the barrel is no longer wrought of band iron. You will even see the forging lap on the inner barrel wall where I put cold light into it.

Did you notice the traces of original red minium paint (Mennige)?

Also, the punched circles over the breech remind of the almost identical decoration on the Sotheby's stone gun (cf. b/w photos above)!

Alexander, as I have tried to explain before, the 'younger' the barrel is, the larger is the touchhole. The largest touchholes occur on guns around 1500 - please cf. my earlier posts on haquebut barrel from my collection. After that turn of the century - and with the end of the Middle Ages and the beginning of the Renaissance - touchholes tend to become notably smaller once again.

Now, and on thinking twice, the Sotheby's Swiss Steinbüchse could even be as late as the second half of the 15th century when measured by its large touchhole, and considering the long and traditional Swis way of keeping oblique styles. On the other hand, the piece might well be ca. 1430 and the touchhole just burnt out or was widened during its later working time.

That's one of the points when I wish there would be more input from my fellow members!!!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 6th July 2010, 09:52 PM

This is preserved at the Fortress (Veste) of Hohensalzburg, Austria, and like the Weißenburg gun it too retains its original oaken stock to which the wrought iron barrel is attached by three fixed iron bands.

The round, staged barrel features a smaller breech and a notably wider ball chamber (Flug).

Although I took a lot of photos of it back in the 80's I sadly do not have any ecxact measurements but I estimate its data to nearly the same as those of the Weißenburg Steinbüchse: ca. 65 cm overall, barrel ca. 28 cm, bore ca. 8 cm.

The touchhole is still rather small and not too far off the rear barrel end, the caliber is already rather big for a manually operated piece and the barrel is already wrought of one piece around an iron bolt and fire-welded together. This latter part of the inner barrel is seen in the pics. A dating of early 15th century (ca. 1410-20) would therefore seem quite right but mid-15th c. is also possible.

It too was doubtlessly mounted pivotable and adjustable on a heavy wooden base.

What's highly interesting is the iron tongue of a longitudinal band nailed to and sticking out from the underside of the carriage. I guess it must have had some function either in connexion with the (missing) wooden base or with the loading process. The rest of such a tongue seems to be present on the Weißenburg Steinbüchse as well. Mabye it just acted as a sort of grip when adjusting the piece or revolving it on the socket.
Anyway, I once had an idea that might have presented a solution but sadly can't seem to remember. Must study the contemporary illustrations - and hope for your brain storming, of course!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 9th August 2010, 05:26 PM

A medium size wrought iron Steinbüchse made of staves and hoops (German Stabring-Geschütz), ca. 1400, in the Army Museum (Heeresgeschichtliches Museum) at Vienna, Austria, inv.-no. NI 81588; the wooden carriage is a modern reproduction.

Measurements:

overall length: 90 cm
maximum width/outer diameter: 26 cm
caliber: 16 cm
powder chamber: 46 cm long, inner diameter at the front 5.5 cm, narrowing to 4.5 cm at the rear
length of ball chamber (Flug): 22 cm, meaning that the ball of lime stone with a diameter of ca. 15.5 cm was placed very close to the muzzle and had to be plugged by wooden wedges!
distance between touch hole and and muzzle: 83.5 cm
weight: ca. 125 kg.

This gun is assumed to have been manufactured in Venice between ca. 1390 and 1410.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 9th August 2010, 06:16 PM

On top there is a watercolor of ca. 1530 illustrating the taking of the counties of Burgundy and Arthois in 1495.

The smaller Bleibüchse is preserved standing upright (second image, to the left) in a row of various little noisemakers (Böller) in the world famous arms collection at the castle (Burg) Forchtenstein near Vienna, Austria (second and third images). It is of wrought iron and can be dated to the early 15th century, ca. 1410-20. The fact that the touch hole is unusually large for that period of time leads me to the supposition that it was probably considerably widened during the long working time of the barrel.
The muzzle is not swamped but reinforced by a thick iron ring that was drawn over the barrel in red hot condition. Due to rust and great age, it is coming off in layers nowadays.

Its measurements are:

length overall: 37.5 cm
maximum width: 13.7 cm
caliber: 5 cm
weight: 17.5 kg

The lead ball of a diameter of nearly 5 cm weighed 700 grams, the powder charge 500 grams!
The firing distance is estimated to have been about 1,000 meters.

BTW, the round little barrel to its right may also be dated to the 15th century.

The last image shows a larger sample of a wrought iron cannon barrel of ca. 1470 also firing lead balls which is on display in the Army Museum (Heeresgeschichtliches Museum) in Vienna, Austria.

Measurements:

length overall: 1.66 m
maximum width: 13.0 cm
outer diameter of the swamped the muzzle: 12.3 cm
caliber: 4.5 cm
weight: unknown
weight of lead ball: 480 grams
weight of powder charge: 240 g

Best,
Miichael

Matchlock · 9th August 2010, 08:29 PM

Here is a watercolor of ca. 1410 from the famous Cod. vind. 3069, fol 40, Austrian National Library, Vienna. The gunner is depicted firing a smaller Steinbüchse by means of a long igniting iron* (Loseisen). A lime stone ball (not to scale as was usual at that period of time) is seen leaving the muzzle and flying over the moat towards a tower as part of the wall of a city laid siege to.

Two details are remarkable:

- the way the guy is balancing a bowl with stone balls in his left hand (which does not really make much sense

)

- the carriage is already adjustable in height and its wheels show a very special form of parallel spokes (Parallelspeichenräder) characteristic of the alpine regions where they were kept in use for hundreds of years until the early 20th century.

*For a detailed discussion of igniting irons and linstocks, please see my thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10029

Best,
Michael

6th July 2010, 06:34 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	First more of the two stone balls and the stone hand grenade in my collection. Next a small stone gun (German Steinbüchse) retaining its original oaken carriage (German Lafette); the wood, on the basis of the South German oak chronology, is datable to ca. 1460 or later - who would have assumed such a comparatively 'late' date?! Note the fixation by means of two iron clamps which is also shown on contemporary illustrations. This type of carriage, as seen in several 15th sentury documents, was originally fixed pivotable on a large round wooden base which sometimes even had a quadrant for more exact adjustment (see following posts). This Steinbüchse, preserved in The Museum of Weißenburg, Bavaria, measures 61.3 cm overall, barrel length 31.6 cm overall, length of ball chamber (Flug) 26.0 cm, caliber at muzzle 5.6 cm, narrowing to the rear. m Attached Images

6th July 2010, 07:19 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	More: The upper three, including a sectional drawing, of two Steinbüchsen in the Historic Museum Berne, Switzerland; the carriages are late 19th century replacements when these pieces were still in the famous collection of Robert Forrer who then handed everything down to the Museum, which 'gratefully' has not been exhibiting anything since WW II. Alexander, I am afraid that have no X-radiography of such handgonnes but I do hope the sectional drawing and detailed photography will do. I some of the photos you can even see the banded iron coming off in thin layers as a consequence or rust and the great age of these pieces. Now on it goes with the beautiful and completely preserved Weißenburg gun. Note the fixation of the barrel by two pivoted iron clamps which can also be seen in early 15th century illustrations attached. Please also note that the touchhole is larger now and has moved definitely forward of the rear end of the breech - also a criterion for dating the piece to the second half of the 15th century. Please bear in mind that there usually is a remarkable delay in the development of time-proven forms and techniques in rural areas as compared with the big leading city centers. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 6th July 2010 at 07:30 PM.

6th July 2010, 07:37 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The rest of the Weißenburg Steinbüchse. Of course, due to its relatively late date of manufacture, the barrel is no longer wrought of band iron. You will even see the forging lap on the inner barrel wall where I put cold light into it. Did you notice the traces of original red minium paint (Mennige)? Also, the punched circles over the breech remind of the almost identical decoration on the Sotheby's stone gun (cf. b/w photos above)! Alexander, as I have tried to explain before, the 'younger' the barrel is, the larger is the touchhole. The largest touchholes occur on guns around 1500 - please cf. my earlier posts on haquebut barrel from my collection. After that turn of the century - and with the end of the Middle Ages and the beginning of the Renaissance - touchholes tend to become notably smaller once again. Now, and on thinking twice, the Sotheby's Swiss Steinbüchse could even be as late as the second half of the 15th century when measured by its large touchhole, and considering the long and traditional Swis way of keeping oblique styles. On the other hand, the piece might well be ca. 1430 and the touchhole just burnt out or was widened during its later working time. That's one of the points when I wish there would be more input from my fellow members!!! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 6th July 2010 at 08:26 PM.

6th July 2010, 09:52 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Another fine and completely preserved Steinbüchse in Salzburg This is preserved at the Fortress (Veste) of Hohensalzburg, Austria, and like the Weißenburg gun it too retains its original oaken stock to which the wrought iron barrel is attached by three fixed iron bands. The round, staged barrel features a smaller breech and a notably wider ball chamber (Flug). Although I took a lot of photos of it back in the 80's I sadly do not have any ecxact measurements but I estimate its data to nearly the same as those of the Weißenburg Steinbüchse: ca. 65 cm overall, barrel ca. 28 cm, bore ca. 8 cm. The touchhole is still rather small and not too far off the rear barrel end, the caliber is already rather big for a manually operated piece and the barrel is already wrought of one piece around an iron bolt and fire-welded together. This latter part of the inner barrel is seen in the pics. A dating of early 15th century (ca. 1410-20) would therefore seem quite right but mid-15th c. is also possible. It too was doubtlessly mounted pivotable and adjustable on a heavy wooden base. What's highly interesting is the iron tongue of a longitudinal band nailed to and sticking out from the underside of the carriage. I guess it must have had some function either in connexion with the (missing) wooden base or with the loading process. The rest of such a tongue seems to be present on the Weißenburg Steinbüchse as well. Mabye it just acted as a sort of grip when adjusting the piece or revolving it on the socket. Anyway, I once had an idea that might have presented a solution but sadly can't seem to remember. Must study the contemporary illustrations - and hope for your brain storming, of course! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 6th July 2010 at 11:05 PM.

9th August 2010, 05:26 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A medium size wrought iron Steinbüchse made of staves and hoops (German Stabring-Geschütz), ca. 1400, in the Army Museum (Heeresgeschichtliches Museum) at Vienna, Austria, inv.-no. NI 81588; the wooden carriage is a modern reproduction. Measurements: overall length: 90 cm maximum width/outer diameter: 26 cm caliber: 16 cm powder chamber: 46 cm long, inner diameter at the front 5.5 cm, narrowing to 4.5 cm at the rear length of ball chamber (Flug): 22 cm, meaning that the ball of lime stone with a diameter of ca. 15.5 cm was placed very close to the muzzle and had to be plugged by wooden wedges! distance between touch hole and and muzzle: 83.5 cm weight: ca. 125 kg. This gun is assumed to have been manufactured in Venice between ca. 1390 and 1410. Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 9th August 2010 at 06:37 PM.

6th July 2010, 07:34 PM	#3
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	The touch hole of last gun is too wide. How to explane it? By the way about the manual weapon i have a theory (I will wright it later) But i have not explanation for this case. p/s Michael, please look at your privat messege (i have some x-rays of bombards)

9th August 2010, 06:16 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Two Early Guns Firing Lead Balls (Bleibüchsen), ca. 1420 and 1470 On top there is a watercolor of ca. 1530 illustrating the taking of the counties of Burgundy and Arthois in 1495. The smaller Bleibüchse is preserved standing upright (second image, to the left) in a row of various little noisemakers (Böller) in the world famous arms collection at the castle (Burg) Forchtenstein near Vienna, Austria (second and third images). It is of wrought iron and can be dated to the early 15th century, ca. 1410-20. The fact that the touch hole is unusually large for that period of time leads me to the supposition that it was probably considerably widened during the long working time of the barrel. The muzzle is not swamped but reinforced by a thick iron ring that was drawn over the barrel in red hot condition. Due to rust and great age, it is coming off in layers nowadays. Its measurements are: length overall: 37.5 cm maximum width: 13.7 cm caliber: 5 cm weight: 17.5 kg The lead ball of a diameter of nearly 5 cm weighed 700 grams, the powder charge 500 grams! The firing distance is estimated to have been about 1,000 meters. BTW, the round little barrel to its right may also be dated to the 15th century. The last image shows a larger sample of a wrought iron cannon barrel of ca. 1470 also firing lead balls which is on display in the Army Museum (Heeresgeschichtliches Museum) in Vienna, Austria. Measurements: length overall: 1.66 m maximum width: 13.0 cm outer diameter of the swamped the muzzle: 12.3 cm caliber: 4.5 cm weight: unknown weight of lead ball: 480 grams weight of powder charge: 240 g Best, Miichael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 9th August 2010 at 09:32 PM.

9th August 2010, 08:29 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Here is a watercolor of ca. 1410 from the famous Cod. vind. 3069, fol 40, Austrian National Library, Vienna. The gunner is depicted firing a smaller Steinbüchse by means of a long igniting iron* (Loseisen). A lime stone ball (not to scale as was usual at that period of time) is seen leaving the muzzle and flying over the moat towards a tower as part of the wall of a city laid siege to. Two details are remarkable: - the way the guy is balancing a bowl with stone balls in his left hand (which does not really make much sense ) - the carriage is already adjustable in height and its wheels show a very special form of parallel spokes (Parallelspeichenräder) characteristic of the alpine regions where they were kept in use for hundreds of years until the early 20th century. For a detailed discussion of igniting irons and linstocks, please see my thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10029 Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 9th August 2010 at 09:18 PM.*