Can you ID this mark please

terry1956 · 23rd June 2011, 05:27 PM

hi there, can anyone please help out with this mark on the guard of an french M1822 light cavalry sabre, the blade is marked Klingenthal 1830 which i know about but i have not seen the stamped AGN on the guard before. sorry the pictures are not good at showing the mark. michael

fernando · 23rd June 2011, 07:22 PM

Is that a number under the letters, Michael ?
It would be great if you get a better picture; take your time.

terry1956 · 23rd June 2011, 09:28 PM

Hi Fernando. please find better pic in the attachments file. Yes you are correct under the main letters are 3 numbers 563 which at sometime got crossed out for some reason. there are also a line of 5 inspection stamps and the numbers 161 running along the guard.
michael

Ian Knight · 29th June 2011, 09:48 AM

Hello Terry,
I think that the reason that the numbers have been crossed out is because the sabre has been re-issued after being in storage and then given a new rack number.
The letters AGN probably stand for 'Armes Garde Nationale', Armée Garde Nationale' or something similar.
I will check my reference books.

Ian

terry1956 · 30th June 2011, 05:13 PM

Hi Ian, sorry for not getting back sooner been to france. 'Armes Garde Nationale' is this a police unit, as today the garde nationale is semi police.

Ian Knight · 30th June 2011, 05:27 PM

Hello Terry,
The 'Garde Nationale' was a military force but separate from the army.
Below is a piece that I have taken from Wikipedia relating to the Garde Nationale at the period in which your sabre was used.

National Guard of 1831
A new National Guard was established in 1831 following the July Revolution in 1830. It fought in the Revolution of 1848 in favour of the republicans. Napoleon III confined it during the Second Empire to subordinate tasks in order to reduce its liberal and republican influence. During the Franco-Prussian War the Government of National Defense of 1870 called on it take a major role in defending Paris against Prussia. During the uprising of the Paris Commune, from March to May 1871, the National Guard in Paris was expanded to include all able-bodied citizens capable of carrying weapons. Following the Commune's defeat by the French Army, the Guard was suppressed and disbanded on 14 March 1872.

Ian

terry1956 · 1st July 2011, 08:42 PM

Thanks Ian. it always makes a weapon a bit more interesting, if you know some of its history.
thanks again. terry

Ian Knight · 1st July 2011, 08:59 PM

You are very welcome Terry.

Ian

23rd June 2011, 05:27 PM	#1
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	Can you ID this mark please hi there, can anyone please help out with this mark on the guard of an french M1822 light cavalry sabre, the blade is marked Klingenthal 1830 which i know about but i have not seen the stamped AGN on the guard before. sorry the pictures are not good at showing the mark. michael Attached Images Last edited by terry1956; 23rd June 2011 at 09:23 PM.

23rd June 2011, 09:28 PM	#3
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	markings Hi Fernando. please find better pic in the attachments file. Yes you are correct under the main letters are 3 numbers 563 which at sometime got crossed out for some reason. there are also a line of 5 inspection stamps and the numbers 161 running along the guard. michael Attached Images

30th June 2011, 05:13 PM	#5
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	in answer Hi Ian, sorry for not getting back sooner been to france. 'Armes Garde Nationale' is this a police unit, as today the garde nationale is semi police.

1st July 2011, 08:42 PM	#7
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	thanks Thanks Ian. it always makes a weapon a bit more interesting, if you know some of its history. thanks again. terry

23rd June 2011, 07:22 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Is that a number under the letters, Michael ? It would be great if you get a better picture; take your time.

29th June 2011, 09:48 AM	#4
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	Hello Terry, I think that the reason that the numbers have been crossed out is because the sabre has been re-issued after being in storage and then given a new rack number. The letters AGN probably stand for 'Armes Garde Nationale', Armée Garde Nationale' or something similar. I will check my reference books. Ian

30th June 2011, 05:27 PM	#6
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	Hello Terry, The 'Garde Nationale' was a military force but separate from the army. Below is a piece that I have taken from Wikipedia relating to the Garde Nationale at the period in which your sabre was used. National Guard of 1831 A new National Guard was established in 1831 following the July Revolution in 1830. It fought in the Revolution of 1848 in favour of the republicans. Napoleon III confined it during the Second Empire to subordinate tasks in order to reduce its liberal and republican influence. During the Franco-Prussian War the Government of National Defense of 1870 called on it take a major role in defending Paris against Prussia. During the uprising of the Paris Commune, from March to May 1871, the National Guard in Paris was expanded to include all able-bodied citizens capable of carrying weapons. Following the Commune's defeat by the French Army, the Guard was suppressed and disbanded on 14 March 1872. Ian

1st July 2011, 08:59 PM	#8
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	You are very welcome Terry. Ian