A French navaja

fernando · 20th January 2008, 05:22 PM

For non scholar small collectors, allways full of uncertainties, it is allways a pleasure to find a piece out there, that can be identified in authorized books or catalogues, instead of just guessing what the thing is, or could be.
This French navaja pattern is fully represented in Forton's main work, both in pages 150 as in 190.
The cuttler for this one was Batisse, with a punction also referred in Forton's, as having been in use between end XVIII beg. and XIX centuries. For the rest of the century, Batisse used a different punction. Therefore the dating of this example is easily atyributed, which is another pleasure.
The grips are half turtle half decorated bone.
Pitty the turtle plates are a bit swollen ( this the term ? )
The blade has a few small dents, sort of looking like saw theeth. I don't think i will ever sharpen it ... better live it like that.
Blade length 6", total length 13".
Your coments will be welcome, Gentlemen ... Master Chris ?

Fernando

Rich · 20th January 2008, 07:38 PM

Very nice and good info. I have two of the same design signed Beauvior
which I believe is also a French maker.

Rich S

fernando · 20th January 2008, 07:49 PM

Thanks Rich,
That means you are well within.
Beauvoir, also from Thiers ( France ), XIX century, is precisely the cuttler that signs the two examples i mentioned, in Forton's book.
Fernando

Dom · 21st January 2008, 12:20 AM

Hi Fernando
you shocked me

the title advertisement "A French navaja"

in fact, must be "A navara manufactured in France"

because "navara" it's a Spanish knife, not at all French,
anyway, very nice knife, with handle and blade too elegant.
lucky man

regards

à +

Dom

ps/ the nearest french knife production, with look of navaja, is "Laguiole",
but not oldest than XIXe, as well as here, Laguiole from Laguiole, not from Thiers

Chris Evans · 21st January 2008, 02:14 AM

Hi fernando,

Interesting piece and as you say, it is nice to be able to positively identify it.

This folding knife is a good representative of those that flooded into Spain during the 19th century and severely undercut the native product; They were better made and a more attractive buy.

Something to note is that the blade fixation system (in the open position) is what I call a demi-lock, and which did not actually lock the blade, rather required considerable downward pressure before it could be closed. This was a requirement of Spanish law, so as to downgrade the potential of the knife as a weapon by making thrusting a very risky proposition for the wielder (the blade could close and cut the fingers!)

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 22nd January 2008, 10:41 PM

Hi Dom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Fernando
you shocked me

the title advertisement "A French navaja"

in fact, must be "A navara manufactured in France"

because "navara" it's a Spanish knife, not at all French,

In fact a "French navaja", meaning a French knife made the Spanish way.
... not a couteau ... or a canif

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

anyway, very nice knife, with handle and blade too elegant.
lucky man

Thank you

... and my compliments to your Laguioles

fernando · 22nd January 2008, 10:43 PM

Hi Chris,
So sorry for the delay in thanking you for your precious input.
Keep well
Fernando

Chris Evans · 23rd January 2008, 01:07 AM

Fernando,

Thank you and

Cheers
Chris

20th January 2008, 05:22 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	A French navaja For non scholar small collectors, allways full of uncertainties, it is allways a pleasure to find a piece out there, that can be identified in authorized books or catalogues, instead of just guessing what the thing is, or could be. This French navaja pattern is fully represented in Forton's main work, both in pages 150 as in 190. The cuttler for this one was Batisse, with a punction also referred in Forton's, as having been in use between end XVIII beg. and XIX centuries. For the rest of the century, Batisse used a different punction. Therefore the dating of this example is easily atyributed, which is another pleasure. The grips are half turtle half decorated bone. Pitty the turtle plates are a bit swollen ( this the term ? ) The blade has a few small dents, sort of looking like saw theeth. I don't think i will ever sharpen it ... better live it like that. Blade length 6", total length 13". Your coments will be welcome, Gentlemen ... Master Chris ? Fernando Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 20th January 2008 at 06:37 PM.

21st January 2008, 12:20 AM	#4
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Fernando you shocked me the title advertisement "A French navaja" in fact, must be "A navara manufactured in France" because "navara" it's a Spanish knife, not at all French, anyway, very nice knife, with handle and blade too elegant. lucky man regards à + Dom ps/ the nearest french knife production, with look of navaja, is "Laguiole", but not oldest than XIXe, as well as here, Laguiole from Laguiole, not from Thiers Attached Images Last edited by Dom; 21st January 2008 at 12:35 AM.

20th January 2008, 07:38 PM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Very nice and good info. I have two of the same design signed Beauvior which I believe is also a French maker. Rich S

20th January 2008, 07:49 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thanks Rich, That means you are well within. Beauvoir, also from Thiers ( France ), XIX century, is precisely the cuttler that signs the two examples i mentioned, in Forton's book. Fernando

21st January 2008, 02:14 AM	#5
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 662	Hi fernando, Interesting piece and as you say, it is nice to be able to positively identify it. This folding knife is a good representative of those that flooded into Spain during the 19th century and severely undercut the native product; They were better made and a more attractive buy. Something to note is that the blade fixation system (in the open position) is what I call a demi-lock, and which did not actually lock the blade, rather required considerable downward pressure before it could be closed. This was a requirement of Spanish law, so as to downgrade the potential of the knife as a weapon by making thrusting a very risky proposition for the wielder (the blade could close and cut the fingers!) Cheers Chris

22nd January 2008, 10:43 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Hi Chris, So sorry for the delay in thanking you for your precious input. Keep well Fernando

23rd January 2008, 01:07 AM	#8
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 662	Fernando, Thank you and Cheers Chris