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Old 13th May 2018, 01:37 PM   #1
Sajen
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Default North or West African dagger for ID

Hello dear members,

I've just purchased this West to North African dagger but I am unsure about the exact origin, the only similar example I've found is listed here: http://www.memoire-africaine.com/armes2.html and described as Touareg dagger but I doubt a little bit that this description is correct. Is someone able to confirm this description or know it better?

Thank you very much in advance, first picture is from the seller and show the dagger in question, the second picture is from the above given site. The dagger in question is 34 cm inside it's scabbard.
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Old 13th May 2018, 02:58 PM   #2
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A good, uncommon dagger Detlef ... well done. I think I've seen these described somewhere as Baule, but whether that is a correct attribution, I can't say.

However, I am confident its not Taureg.

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Colin
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Old 13th May 2018, 03:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
A good, uncommon dagger Detlef ... well done. I think I've seen these described somewhere as Baule, but whether that is a correct attribution, I can't say.

However, I am confident its not Taureg.


Hi Colin,

thank you very much for comment. Yes, the dagger is very nicely worked and I hope that the white spots on the scabbard are nothing serious, have asked the seller for it but never get answer. Will do a little bit search with keyword "Baule". But happy, that I am not alone that it is not Tuareg.

Best regards,
Detlef
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Old 14th May 2018, 01:50 PM   #4
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No other comments regarding the origin of this dagger?
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Old 14th May 2018, 02:34 PM   #5
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Its a pity there isn't more interest in African and Oceanic weapons etc. on the forum
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Old 14th May 2018, 02:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
Its a pity there isn't more interest in African and Oceanic weapons etc. on the forum


Yes, agreed! Also when African weapons not my main interest they are most interesting.
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Old 15th May 2018, 06:09 PM   #7
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Many of us are interested in African and Oceanic Weapons, however when we lost VANDOO, we lost a real expert in these areas and much more !
That being said, I think it is a great dagger and to me it has a Sudanese Flavor.
Also you presented an interesting reference site to me that I was unaware of.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:43 PM   #8
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I love African weapons particularly those of the Congo and I am pretty sure that there are a lot more members who are also interested. I am no expert by any means, just the opposite, so you will have to excuse me if my suggestion seems improbable. I agree with Colin that it is not Tuareg and is indeed an uncommon dagger which I like very much. I am not sure if it is a dagger of the Ivory Coast Baule people as I have only seen their broad, short, leaf shaped daggers but it may well be. I lean to it being Manding origin but could be wrong.

Thank you for posting this dagger.
Regards
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Many of us are interested in African and Oceanic Weapons, however when we lost VANDOO, we lost a real expert in these areas and much more !


There is nothing to add!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
That being said, I think it is a great dagger and to me it has a Sudanese Flavor.


The reason I've mentioned North Africa. The other dagger has a very similar worked scabbard and the blade shape is very similar as well. So it seems to be a dagger common for a region or tribe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Also you presented an interesting reference site to me that I was unaware of.


I think that I've posted the link before. Here is another great site from a member: http://www.africanarms.com/alle-alben/

Thank you for comment and your thoughts.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel
I love African weapons particularly those of the Congo and I am pretty sure that there are a lot more members who are also interested. I am no expert by any means, just the opposite, so you will have to excuse me if my suggestion seems improbable. I agree with Colin that it is not Tuareg and is indeed an uncommon dagger which I like very much. I am not sure if it is a dagger of the Ivory Coast Baule people as I have only seen their broad, short, leaf shaped daggers but it may well be. I lean to it being Manding origin but could be wrong.

Thank you for posting this dagger.


Hello Miguel,

like you I've looked in direction Baule but can't find something similar. But I've looked for Manding also but sadly no match until now. Can you show pictures?

Until now I don't have it in my hands but here the other seller pictures, maybe someone get an idea by remembering a similar workmanship.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:24 PM   #11
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I did a quick internet search and found these two which are described as "Baule" ...
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Old 17th May 2018, 07:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
I did a quick internet search and found these two which are described as "Baule" ...


Thank you Colin, I see some similarities, by the first one the handle by the other one the blade profile. So it's maybe indeed Baule!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
Its a pity there isn't more interest in African and Oceanic weapons etc. on the forum

Hi Colin,

The interest in African Arms is a "little bit" lower then in Asian ones, in this forum, but still - the interest is (one shouldn┤t be too quick ...).

I saw several attributions to West Afrika (Baule, also if I remember well Sierra Leone ?), nevertheless by collectors only (nothing "in book" I think). Small ("utility") knives are not as known as a big ones. Example could be small straight daggers/knives (blade ca 13 cms) used in Afar region by camel herders
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Old 19th May 2018, 11:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
Example could be small straight daggers/knives (blade ca 13 cms) used in Afar region by camel herders


Hello Martin,

so you think it could be an East African dagger?

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 19th May 2018, 05:55 PM   #15
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I think as others - West African. (This Afar herders was an example of another not too much known knife)
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Old 19th May 2018, 08:35 PM   #16
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Hi Detlef,
I seem to becoming obsessed with trying to pin point the origin of this knife. Is it possible to provide clearer pics as my eyes aren't to good these days. Could you also confirm the construction of th hilt i.e. Just wood or leather covered wood, material of plaited band around centre of hilt also materials of scabbard and the decorated band.s at the chapel and throat, sorry to be such a pest
Regards
Miguel
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Old 19th May 2018, 08:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
I think as others - West African. (This Afar herders was an example of another not too much known knife)



Thank you Martin, now I understand what you have meant! Thank you again.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 19th May 2018, 08:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel
I seem to becoming obsessed with trying to pin point the origin of this knife. Is it possible to provide clearer pics as my eyes aren't to good these days. Could you also confirm the construction of th hilt i.e. Just wood or leather covered wood, material of plaited band around centre of hilt also materials of scabbard and the decorated band.s at the chapel and throat, sorry to be such a pest


Hi Miguel,
like you I would like to know from where this dagger coming. So you can't be a pest! I will post better pictures with many close ups soon as I have it in my hands, the seller was a little bit circular but it's on the way to me and will be next week here. But I think both, scabbard and handle are wood covered with leather and in up and down from scabbard and in the middle from the handle is sewn lizard or snake leather with sinew, that's what I think to see. But I will describe it again when I have examined it.

Best regards,
Detlef
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Old 20th May 2018, 02:41 PM   #19
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Hi Detlef,

the small sewn on pieces of leather are neither lizard, nor snake. It is sting-ray skin.
Best
Martin
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Old 20th May 2018, 03:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
..the small sewn on pieces of leather are neither lizard, nor snake. It is sting-ray skin.


Hi Martin,

thank you for correction!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 20th May 2018, 07:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Miguel,
like you I would like to know from where this dagger coming. So you can't be a pest! I will post better pictures with many close ups soon as I have it in my hands, the seller was a little bit circular but it's on the way to me and will be next week here. But I think both, scabbard and handle are wood covered with leather and in up and down from scabbard and in the middle from the handle is sewn lizard or snake leather with sinew, that's what I think to see. But I will describe it again when I have examined it.

Best regards,
Detlef


Hi Detlef, Looking forward to your pics, thanks.
Rega do
Miguel
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:37 PM   #22
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In the meanwhile I've received the dagger and it's worked like supposed, the white spots on the scabbard has been wall paint, I was able to remove it unvisible. Ca. 33 cm inside scabbard, 31,5 cm without, handle 10,5 cm long.
It's a very nice worked small dagger, maybe not extremely old or early collected in a very nice condition after it has received a little bit TLC.
Here the promised pictures. Still hope that the exact origin can get identified.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:36 PM   #23
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Default dagger ID

Yesterday I noticed this ID request from Detlef. Here I can help. Your dagger is from Benin, former Dahomey and belong to the tribe "Bariba". They are located in the northeastern part of Benin and today around 1 million people. Some also to find in Nigeria.
Here you can find my examples, one short sword and two daggers.
www.africanarms.com/alle-alben/!/oa/6644101-121340861/
and here
http://www.africanarms.com/alle-alben/!/oa/6644101-121340862/.
There is also one old example in the MEG
http://http://www.ville-ge.ch/meg/m...c.php?id=009062 .
Last not least here some of this daggers in the ▄berseemuseum in Bremen/Germany and a map.
With the web links something went wrong, but I don't now how to do it in the right way.
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Last edited by Wodimi : 27th May 2018 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:56 PM   #24
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Hello Wolf-Dieter,

thank you very much! I've searched on your site but seem to have overlooked your examples. Thank you again for your great help!

Best regards,
Detlef
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:01 PM   #25
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Wolf that is so cool and you have such a cool name too, I am so envious.
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Old 27th May 2018, 10:39 PM   #26
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thanks Detlef and Tim, no need to be envious....a Wolf knows maybe this and that, but is too dumb to handle this thing with the web link. So better not to be a Wolf :-)
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Old 27th May 2018, 11:30 PM   #27
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Hope it works: http://www.africanarms.com/alle-alben/!/oa/6644101-121340862/
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:09 AM   #28
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unfortunately it also don't work, but so I'm not so alone and I can be tranquilized
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wodimi
Yesterday I noticed this ID request from Detlef. Here I can help. Your dagger is from Benin, former Dahomey and belong to the tribe "Bariba". They are located in the northeastern part of Benin and today around 1 million people. Some also to find in Nigeria.
Here you can find my examples, one short sword and two daggers.
www.africanarms.com/alle-alben/!/oa/6644101-121340861/
and here
http://www.africanarms.com/alle-alben/!/oa/6644101-121340862/.
There is also one old example in the MEG
http://http://www.ville-ge.ch/meg/m...c.php?id=009062 .
Last not least here some of this daggers in the ▄berseemuseum in Bremen/Germany and a map.
With the web links something went wrong, but I don't now how to do it in the right way.



Very useful information from Wodimi. Thanks for posting !
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Old 28th May 2018, 03:42 PM   #30
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Thank you very much for this info, Wodimi, I have spent hours searching without success, You have saved me many more and I very much doubt if I would have discovered the origin of this knife, brilliant.🙂
Regards
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