Moro kris or sundang?

apolaki · 8th February 2014, 10:01 PM

Hello,

Can anyone tell me more information with regards to type of weapon, pamor, metallic composition, and possible age? It is approximately 24 inches and tapers towards the end, Thank you for your time!

kai · 8th February 2014, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Can anyone tell me more information with regards to type of weapon, pamor, metallic composition, and possible age? It is approximately 24 inches and tapers towards the end, Thank you for your time!

Congrats, apolaki, very nice!

IMHO this is Moro: a Sulu kalis - mid-late 19th c., I'd guess. The lower asang-asang is obviously missing; not sure wether there ever was an upper one.

Not twistcore but an even rarer Moro type of pattern-welded blades. I'd love to see it cleaned and stained!

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 9th February 2014, 02:19 AM

I agree with Kai on it being Sulu (and that it needs to be etched and cleaned

).

However I think it is a little earlier, say the early 1800s.

DaveS · 9th February 2014, 04:44 AM

It seems to me that this blade looks like it has a lot more malay influence to it than moro. even the pamor looks pretty much Indonesian..........Dave.

Battara · 10th February 2014, 03:10 AM

It is possible that it is a Malay blade, although early Moro kris blades look similar to Malay sundang.

Robert · 11th February 2014, 10:30 PM

Hello Apolaki, Wonderful piece. I am not experienced enough with these to be able to make an expert judgement call on who or where this was made but, the overall appearance looks more Moro to me than Malay. Either way it is a beautiful piece and I too would love to see it cleaned and etched.

Best,
Robert

kai · 16th February 2014, 10:28 PM

Hello Dave,

Quote:

It seems to me that this blade looks like it has a lot more malay influence to it than moro.

I agree that this blade has a few odd features like the pretty feeble gangya.

However, the scrollwork at the base of the blade does look Moro rather than Malay to me. Also the hilt and, especially, the grip braiding seems textbook Moro to me.

Quote:

even the pamor looks pretty much Indonesian..........

I'd suggest that this is probably because we're not used to see this kind of surface manipulated pamor from Moro blades; examples are rare, indeed.

BTW, Malay sundang don't show this kind of pamor construction any more often either...

Regards,
Kai

DaveS · 16th February 2014, 10:44 PM

Kai: Yes, the scrollwork does look more moro than malay, but the pamor just doesn't look moro to me at all. I think this is a definite hybrid. Not surprising, given the close proximity of these two groups..........Dave.

kai · 16th February 2014, 10:19 PM

Hello Jose,

Quote:

I agree with Kai on it being Sulu (and that it needs to be etched and cleaned

).

However I think it is a little earlier, say the early 1800s.

I have to admit that my mid-late 19th c. timeframe may be a bit too cautious. However, when looking at the scrollwork I just don't see the quality I'd expect from early 19th c. pieces. While there may have been "village quality" examples in all periods, the combination of above-average pamor with sub-par scrollwork just doesn't parse with me though.

Regards,
Kai

8th February 2014, 10:01 PM	#1
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Moro kris or sundang? Hello, Can anyone tell me more information with regards to type of weapon, pamor, metallic composition, and possible age? It is approximately 24 inches and tapers towards the end, Thank you for your time! Attached Images

9th February 2014, 02:19 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I agree with Kai on it being Sulu (and that it needs to be etched and cleaned ). However I think it is a little earlier, say the early 1800s.

9th February 2014, 04:44 AM	#4
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	It seems to me that this blade looks like it has a lot more malay influence to it than moro. even the pamor looks pretty much Indonesian..........Dave.

10th February 2014, 03:10 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	It is possible that it is a Malay blade, although early Moro kris blades look similar to Malay sundang.

11th February 2014, 10:30 PM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Apolaki, Wonderful piece. I am not experienced enough with these to be able to make an expert judgement call on who or where this was made but, the overall appearance looks more Moro to me than Malay. Either way it is a beautiful piece and I too would love to see it cleaned and etched. Best, Robert

16th February 2014, 10:44 PM	#8
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Kai: Yes, the scrollwork does look more moro than malay, but the pamor just doesn't look moro to me at all. I think this is a definite hybrid. Not surprising, given the close proximity of these two groups..........Dave.