Recently Acquired Espada Ancha for Comment

Belizechopper · 31st January 2017, 01:44 AM

Sajen, I will on my return home post better photos. I am traveling and posted what I had. Jim the dating is a complete bear as the reuse of hilts, blades and parts sometimes span a century or more.the more I look at these latin blacksmith swords the more patterns I see in style and design Bill Adams notes the heavy thick short blades may have been designed to cut the hocks of horses for men on foot. Interesting thought process. The earliest espada anchas were much longer and straight bladed, then the short straight blades (possibly reused) then the flat blades with straight forte and sharp upturn in foible, possibly copied from mid 18th century Spanish Dragoon saber with the same blade design. The straight blades with slight turn up in foible seem to start around the beginning of the 19th century. Then seem to get very crude in 1810 to 1830 and straighter still untill taking on a machete look by 1880 or 1890. Then again because as Jim said the reuse of parts disregard everything I said as there can be any number of variations of my theories. While many were used by Soldados de Cuera as many more were used by land owners, los Invalidos and peasants. If others have better information or theories I would love to hear them. Eric

dana_w · 15th October 2018, 09:52 PM

Jim McDougall,

Is your reference to (Levine, 1985) intended to point to "Guide to Knife Values (Levine's Guide to Knives & Their Values) by Bernard Levine (1985-12-13)", or something else?

Jim McDougall · 15th October 2018, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

Jim McDougall,

Is your reference to (Levine, 1985) intended to point to "Guide to Knife Values (Levine's Guide to Knives & Their Values) by Bernard Levine (1985-12-13)", or something else?

Yes.....should have added the title.

dana_w · 15th October 2018, 10:45 PM

Thanks Jim!

midelburgo · 16th October 2018, 10:46 AM

The third sword in the opening post is known in Mexico as a "Chinaco" sword. Chinacos were the revolutionary guerrillas against the Maximilian empire in the 1860s. Later they evolved with refined hilts including silver and gold inlaids and Toledo blades from the 1870s and 1880s as the weapons of Guerrilla commanders up to the times of Pancho Villa. You can see one of these with a discussion (in Spanish) here:
https://www.mexicoarmado.com/cuchill...la-hoja-2.html

The first sword, with the ring, has similar examples in Philipines, with hilts made of horn. One has to remember that under Spanish dominion, Philipines depended administratively from Mexico, and the main trade and contact route was through the Acapulco-Manila galleon. I am not sure if the prototypes originated on one side or the other, but I think Philipines is most probable.

Jim McDougall · 16th October 2018, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midelburgo

The third sword in the opening post is known in Mexico as a "Chinaco" sword. Chinacos were the revolutionary guerrillas against the Maximilian empire in the 1860s. Later they evolved with refined hilts including silver and gold inlaids and Toledo blades from the 1870s and 1880s as the weapons of Guerrilla commanders up to the times of Pancho Villa. You can see one of these with a discussion (in Spanish) here:
https://www.mexicoarmado.com/cuchill...la-hoja-2.html

The first sword, with the ring, has similar examples in Philipines, with hilts made of horn. One has to remember that under Spanish dominion, Philipines depended administratively from Mexico, and the main trade and contact route was through the Acapulco-Manila galleon. I am not sure if the prototypes originated on one side or the other, but I think Philipines is most probable.

Thank you Midelburgo, outstanding detail which I have not seen and valuable to add to our understanding of these Spanish and Mexican swords.

31st January 2017, 01:44 AM	#1
Belizechopper Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 10	Sajen, I will on my return home post better photos. I am traveling and posted what I had. Jim the dating is a complete bear as the reuse of hilts, blades and parts sometimes span a century or more.the more I look at these latin blacksmith swords the more patterns I see in style and design Bill Adams notes the heavy thick short blades may have been designed to cut the hocks of horses for men on foot. Interesting thought process. The earliest espada anchas were much longer and straight bladed, then the short straight blades (possibly reused) then the flat blades with straight forte and sharp upturn in foible, possibly copied from mid 18th century Spanish Dragoon saber with the same blade design. The straight blades with slight turn up in foible seem to start around the beginning of the 19th century. Then seem to get very crude in 1810 to 1830 and straighter still untill taking on a machete look by 1880 or 1890. Then again because as Jim said the reuse of parts disregard everything I said as there can be any number of variations of my theories. While many were used by Soldados de Cuera as many more were used by land owners, los Invalidos and peasants. If others have better information or theories I would love to hear them. Eric

15th October 2018, 09:52 PM	#2
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Jim McDougall, Is your reference to (Levine, 1985) intended to point to "Guide to Knife Values (Levine's Guide to Knives & Their Values) by Bernard Levine (1985-12-13)", or something else?

15th October 2018, 10:45 PM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Thanks Jim!

16th October 2018, 10:46 AM	#5
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 248	The third sword in the opening post is known in Mexico as a "Chinaco" sword. Chinacos were the revolutionary guerrillas against the Maximilian empire in the 1860s. Later they evolved with refined hilts including silver and gold inlaids and Toledo blades from the 1870s and 1880s as the weapons of Guerrilla commanders up to the times of Pancho Villa. You can see one of these with a discussion (in Spanish) here: https://www.mexicoarmado.com/cuchill...la-hoja-2.html The first sword, with the ring, has similar examples in Philipines, with hilts made of horn. One has to remember that under Spanish dominion, Philipines depended administratively from Mexico, and the main trade and contact route was through the Acapulco-Manila galleon. I am not sure if the prototypes originated on one side or the other, but I think Philipines is most probable.