Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th August 2015, 02:53 PM   #1
weapons 27
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
Default otoman pic axe and war hammer or persian ??

What do you think that this set pic axe and war hammer.
you know the origin !!
I did some research and it would otoman!!!
thank
Attached Images
           
weapons 27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2015, 09:03 PM   #2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weapons 27
What do you think that this set pic axe and war hammer.
you know the origin !!
I did some research and it would otoman!!!
thank

Salaams weapons 27 ~This subject is much deeper than it first seems.. What I find interesting is that weapons such as these continued to be carried well into the 20th Century; more as a badge of office for those they belonged to...The Sufi /Jewish Sect; spanning across the region and including Iran; see https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013/...ervishes-1922/

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2015, 12:57 PM   #3
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,173
Default

Could some of the parade axes that I usually associate with the Qajar dynasty actually been used by these dervishes ? They look very similar .
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2015, 01:38 PM   #4
A.alnakkas
Member
 
A.alnakkas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1,336
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Could some of the parade axes that I usually associate with the Qajar dynasty actually been used by these dervishes ? They look very similar .
Flimsy look and poor quality silver koftgari is almost identical to Syrian made stuff. Though I dont recall axes and maces...
A.alnakkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2015, 03:52 PM   #5
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

I totally agree, it is not an old set.
It's not Ottoman and it's not Qajar.
May be a Turkish or Indian tourist set.
I cannot say if it's an early 20th or even a 1970ties set...
I'm sure some members will answer to this question.
Sorry for that...
Kubur
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2015, 09:49 PM   #6
ward
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 637
Default

The problem with saying koftkagari is 1930- back is that it is still being made in traditional ways. I have seen it worked in morocco, Egypt , and 2nd hand India . I know of others who have seen the work done recently in turkey and Syria. I have watched black smithing work done in morocco. A lot of items out there are new or redecorated.
ward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2015, 02:15 PM   #7
weapons 27
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
Default

Up for sale is this very interesting set of Ottoman Pole Arms consisting of a battle axe and a war hammer. The axe blade is 5 inches tall, 3 ½ inches wide. The war hammer is 2 inches long with a curved back spike 7 inches long. Both the axe and the hammer are mounted on wooden hafts, 23 inches long, covered with fabric and reinforced with steel strip and brass tacks. The hafts are fitted with steel collars and steel handles. The axe and hammer blades as well as the haft steel fittings are decorated with silver koftgari decoration typical to the late 19 C. Ottoman style. Very good condition. Fabric covers are lightly worn. Some losses to the Kobtgari decoration on the war hammer and the haft fittings.

Last edited by Rick; 16th August 2015 at 04:37 PM.
weapons 27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2015, 02:17 PM   #8
weapons 27
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weapons 27
Up for sale is this very interesting set of Ottoman Pole Arms consisting of a battle axe and a war hammer. The axe blade is 5 inches tall, 3 ½ inches wide. The war hammer is 2 inches long with a curved back spike 7 inches long. Both the axe and the hammer are mounted on wooden hafts, 23 inches long, covered with fabric and reinforced with steel strip and brass tacks. The hafts are fitted with steel collars and steel handles. The axe and hammer blades as well as the haft steel fittings are decorated with silver koftgari decoration typical to the late 19 C. Ottoman style. Very good condition. Fabric covers are lightly worn. Some losses to the Kobtgari decoration on the war hammer and the haft fittings.
I do not agree with you !!
Here are all virtually identical to the one above

Picture has been removed as item is currently for sale (not allowed here) .

Last edited by Rick; 16th August 2015 at 04:38 PM.
weapons 27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2015, 02:31 PM   #9
weapons 27
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
Default

Here are two other axes of my collection
it on one of the velvet is gone, we still perceive the rest of brown velvet
they are two heavy axes certainly not tourist !!!!
Attached Images
      
weapons 27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2015, 10:46 PM   #10
broadaxe
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 332
Default

These are mostly Sudanese Mehdi period arms, made in the Ottoman and Persian style. They look 'almost' as good, the steel is decent, but the tumb-print is the very light silver koftgari that dades away easily. Good koftgari of a similar theme & technique usualy indicates a recent made.
broadaxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2015, 07:08 AM   #11
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
These are mostly Sudanese Mehdi period arms, made in the Ottoman and Persian style. They look 'almost' as good, the steel is decent, but the tumb-print is the very light silver koftgari that dades away easily. Good koftgari of a similar theme & technique usualy indicates a recent made.
An interesting idea, if this is true then they are certainly not recently made, that time period would date them to the late 1800s.

Here is another similar war pick.
Attached Images
 
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2015, 07:10 AM   #12
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weapons 27
Here are two other axes of my collection
it on one of the velvet is gone, we still perceive the rest of brown velvet
they are two heavy axes certainly not tourist !!!!
I agree, not recently made, and in my opinion not tourist looking items.
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2015, 03:50 PM   #13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Could some of the parade axes that I usually associate with the Qajar dynasty actually been used by these dervishes ? They look very similar .
Salaams drac2k ~ I think so ...I have seen Dervish pictures with almost the entire range of weapons including axes etc... Qajari period...and later.

For a broad outline see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dervish .

The list of pictures shows various Dervishes in different garb...some with axes etc and one which is named as a Dervish Sword see https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368073626987/

See here Jewish dervishes Agha-Jaan Darvish and his brother, patriarchs of the Darvish family. Tehran, Iran, c.1922;
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JW4sWqPJbN...O0/s1600/1.jpg

Another Dervish with a saddle axe;
https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=c...ian+Dervishers


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 16th August 2015 at 08:26 PM.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2015, 01:11 PM   #14
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,173
Default

Thank you Ibrahiim al Balooshi for linking to some very interesting sites !
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2015, 02:21 PM   #15
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default



Please also see a partial report concerning the equipment worn and carried by Persian Dervish including weapons at http://www.academia.edu/11324900/Vis...n_Iran_part_1_

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 18th August 2015 at 10:50 AM.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.