A 17th century helmet and neckpiece for comment

Cerjak · 7th March 2013, 11:15 AM

Hi Everybody
Here some pictures from a new acquisition for comment.

A helmet and neckpiece with nose guard and two hinged cheek pieces, 31cm high. Inscribed: ‘Worn by a retainer of the Earl of Pembroke from Wilton House’.
I hope that Senefelder will give his opinion on it.

Regards

Cerjak

A Senefelder · 7th March 2013, 12:22 PM

Wow,thisis pretty cool right here! I love these and seldom get to see them. These burgeonettes with nasal bar were more often seen on the continent ( Graz has a number of them ). They don't seem to have been made in as large a numbers as regular burgeonettes or other helmet types like zischagges so there aren't as many surviving examples.

As near as I can tell from the pictures constuctionally there seems no reason to believe these to be other than what they appear, late 16/17th century munnitions burgeonette and front plate of a gorget. The helmet, as was typical for mass produced munnitions helmets of the period is made in two halves, one slightly longer along the comb edge than the other, the longer being rolled and crimped over the shorter, and laped over and riveted at either end of the comb at the edges of the skull. The rough internal rolled edges of the base plates of the bureonette and gorget are pretty common for munnitions work of this period, cut washers ect. What appears to be a nice detail on the helmet is the way that the cheek plates have a little extra detail hammering around the hinge ( which is outside the helmet on the bowl, but inside the cheek plates ) to make it sit move closely to the bowl of the helmet ( without it the cheek plates would " stand off " the bowl at this point ). I cannot make out from these pics but do the rivets on the base plate of the gorget have washers on the backside with a slight space that may indicate that they secured a liner in place?

Cerjak · 7th March 2013, 05:41 PM

Hi Senefelder,

Again many thanks you for your great explanation about the construction from this helmet I will post extra pics from the gorget this weekend.
Regards

Cerjak

BerberDagger · 10th March 2013, 01:37 PM

A very nice helmet of english or north european origin ... very very nice and olso all genuine , congratulation !

Cerjak · 10th March 2013, 07:11 PM

Hi Senefelder,
Here the extra pics from the gorget and nasal.
Regards
Cerjak

A Senefelder · 10th March 2013, 07:19 PM

The gorget base plate appears to be good as well. The rivets were to secure a lining as I suspected. This is the front half of a simple base plate gorget. Nice score Cerjak!

Cerjak · 10th March 2013, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

The gorget base plate appears to be good as well. The rivets were to secure a lining as I suspected. This is the front half of a simple base plate gorget. Nice score Cerjak!

Dear Senelfer,

I 'm very happy to have again your opinion to confirm me that it is a good piece.

have nice evening

Cerjak

7th March 2013, 11:15 AM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	A 17th century helmet and neckpiece for comment Hi Everybody Here some pictures from a new acquisition for comment. A helmet and neckpiece with nose guard and two hinged cheek pieces, 31cm high. Inscribed: ‘Worn by a retainer of the Earl of Pembroke from Wilton House’. I hope that Senefelder will give his opinion on it. Regards Cerjak Attached Images

10th March 2013, 07:11 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	extra pics from the gorget Hi Senefelder, Here the extra pics from the gorget and nasal. Regards Cerjak Attached Images

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7th March 2013, 12:22 PM	#2
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	Wow,thisis pretty cool right here! I love these and seldom get to see them. These burgeonettes with nasal bar were more often seen on the continent ( Graz has a number of them ). They don't seem to have been made in as large a numbers as regular burgeonettes or other helmet types like zischagges so there aren't as many surviving examples. As near as I can tell from the pictures constuctionally there seems no reason to believe these to be other than what they appear, late 16/17th century munnitions burgeonette and front plate of a gorget. The helmet, as was typical for mass produced munnitions helmets of the period is made in two halves, one slightly longer along the comb edge than the other, the longer being rolled and crimped over the shorter, and laped over and riveted at either end of the comb at the edges of the skull. The rough internal rolled edges of the base plates of the bureonette and gorget are pretty common for munnitions work of this period, cut washers ect. What appears to be a nice detail on the helmet is the way that the cheek plates have a little extra detail hammering around the hinge ( which is outside the helmet on the bowl, but inside the cheek plates ) to make it sit move closely to the bowl of the helmet ( without it the cheek plates would " stand off " the bowl at this point ). I cannot make out from these pics but do the rivets on the base plate of the gorget have washers on the backside with a slight space that may indicate that they secured a liner in place?

7th March 2013, 05:41 PM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	Hi Senefelder, Again many thanks you for your great explanation about the construction from this helmet I will post extra pics from the gorget this weekend. Regards Cerjak

10th March 2013, 01:37 PM	#4
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	A very nice helmet of english or north european origin ... very very nice and olso all genuine , congratulation !

10th March 2013, 07:19 PM	#6
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	The gorget base plate appears to be good as well. The rivets were to secure a lining as I suspected. This is the front half of a simple base plate gorget. Nice score Cerjak!