ANOTHER LANCE ... BORNU ? your views please

thinreadline · 8th December 2010, 12:45 PM

This is a lance I have had in my collection since the nid 80s . It is almost exactly the same as the one in Liverpool Museums ethnographic colection which features a Bornu horseman complete with a lance of this type, takouba and padded armour. Mine is 10' long o/a , with a 2' head, and 1'9'' heel . The hardwood shaft is just over 1'' diameter. The blade has a strong median ridge and geometric designs.

Iain · 10th December 2010, 07:25 AM

Hi,

I think this could be Bornu. The markings don't give much of a clue, these simple geometric patterns could be attributed to any number of groups in the area. Bornu, Kanem, Hausa cities, Mandingo, Mossi, all used similar cavalry lances. I usually go with the label Sahel when in doubt. I'm not sure there's much reference material for these, beyond the more distinctive Tuareg and Fulani examples.

This seems to be a nice sturdy piece and always a pleasant surprise to see an example that hasn't been cut down. Thanks for posting it, I feel like these are an important part of the Sahel panoply that tend to get ignored for the more glamorous swords and daggers.

thinreadline · 10th December 2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi,

I think this could be Bornu. The markings don't give much of a clue, these simple geometric patterns could be attributed to any number of groups in the area. Bornu, Kanem, Hausa cities, Mandingo, Mossi, all used similar cavalry lances. I usually go with the label Sahel when in doubt. I'm not sure there's much reference material for these, beyond the more distinctive Tuareg and Fulani examples.

This seems to be a nice sturdy piece and always a pleasant surprise to see an example that hasn't been cut down. Thanks for posting it, I feel like these are an important part of the Sahel panoply that tend to get ignored for the more glamorous swords and daggers.

Thank you Iain ... as I said it could be the twin of the one in the ethnographic section of Liverpool World Museum. On this subject I have to commend Liverpool for its exceptionally fine collection of ethnographica . As Liverpool was such an important trading port in the late 18th & 19th centuries the amount of stuff brought back to the region for private collections was immense. Much of this eventually found its way to the museum. It is particularly strong on West African artefacts , the city having had such close ties with the slave trade.

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

This is a lance I have had in my collection since the nid 80s . It is almost exactly the same as the one in Liverpool Museums ethnographic colection which features a Bornu horseman complete with a lance of this type, takouba and padded armour. Mine is 10' long o/a , with a 2' head, and 1'9'' heel . The hardwood shaft is just over 1'' diameter. The blade has a strong median ridge and geometric designs.

Here are some pics of the iron butt of the lance that I should have included originally . The length of the butt is 54 cm . It is spear headed at the end , then round cross sectioned , then square cross sectioned and finally as it joins the shaft it is round again , gradually swelling .

Iain · 19th January 2012, 11:29 AM

Thanks Richmond! Always good to see these details as it helps to develop some sense of how to distinguish between the lances.

This is quite different obviously then from the flat and flared butts encountered on Tuareg and in fact most other lances I have seen from the region.

Great reference for the future!

Martin Lubojacky · 20th January 2012, 09:43 AM

Hello,
Finally - after some years of asking re origin of this spear here in Nigeria, the spear should be comming from Katsina, Sokoto, Kano Emirates.

Martin Lubojacky · 20th January 2012, 12:27 PM

I just would like to add, that in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11889
I described the same spear as from Adamawa (because the seller told me so that time). After then I saw several others, some of them in Kano, and the prevalent opinion of local people was Katsina, Sokoto. Nevertheless, the most important for the assignation would be, I think, link to some old author...

BTW - I have never seen particularly this spear complete in Nigeria - always only very rusty spearheads. I think this complete type of spear, i.e. with the shaft, is rare already. (When the local "antique-vendors" travel to the bush to bring new items for their antique shops in Abuja or Lagos, and they find complete spear, they always break off the spearhead. The reason is they are afraid of the many army check points on the roads and it is possible to hide spearhead better than the whole spear)

colin henshaw · 20th January 2012, 12:57 PM

Nice spear - but I don't think the iron butt part belongs - it looks like the butt from an East African Masai or similar spear that has added.

Regards.

thinreadline · 20th January 2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

I just would like to add, that in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11889
I described the same spear as from Adamawa (because the seller told me so that time). After then I saw several others, some of them in Kano, and the prevalent opinion of local people was Katsina, Sokoto. Nevertheless, the most important for the assignation would be, I think, link to some old author...

BTW - I have never seen particularly this spear complete in Nigeria - always only very rusty spearheads. I think this complete type of spear, i.e. with the shaft, is rare already. (When the local "antique-vendors" travel to the bush to bring new items for their antique shops in Abuja or Lagos, and they find complete spear, they always break off the spearhead. The reason is they are afraid of the many army check points on the roads and it is possible to hide spearhead better than the whole spear)

Very interesting and helpful Martin

thinreadline · 20th January 2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Nice spear - but I don't think the iron butt part belongs - it looks like the butt from an East African Masai or similar spear that has added.

Regards.

You may well be right Colin , I will visit Liverpool Museum and compare their example's butt section, and report back,
Richmond

Iain · 31st December 2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

You may well be right Colin , I will visit Liverpool Museum and compare their example's butt section, and report back,
Richmond

Was just reading back through some old threads and was curious if you ever compared the butt on this to the museum example Richmond?

Iain · 6th May 2014, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

It is almost exactly the same as the one in Liverpool Museums ethnographic .

I was just browsing this thread again today and realized I have yet to see an image of the Liverpool museum's display. I am kicking myself for not getting to the museum the last time I was in the city for business.

Does anyone have an image of this Bornu cavalryman with spear and takouba display?

kronckew · 10th April 2015, 09:02 AM

my maasai lion spear has a long butt spike with a round tapered blunt end that trasitions to square before the round socket.

CharlesS · 10th April 2015, 11:53 AM

Lovely spear! I love these elongated elegant spearheads with the central rib. I am guessing this one is quite heavy? Is it suitable for throwing?

Iain · 10th April 2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Lovely spear! I love these elongated elegant spearheads with the central rib. I am guessing this one is quite heavy? Is it suitable for throwing?

While not my spear I can answer that.

these big ones are cavalry lances for thrusting.

Lighter examples were made to be thrown and a rider would carry three or so.

To get a sense of why you don't want to try to throw something this big see this thread for one of mine with comparison shots next to swords for a sense of scale http://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.p...93&postcount=7

8th December 2010, 12:45 PM	#1
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	ANOTHER LANCE ... BORNU ? your views please This is a lance I have had in my collection since the nid 80s . It is almost exactly the same as the one in Liverpool Museums ethnographic colection which features a Bornu horseman complete with a lance of this type, takouba and padded armour. Mine is 10' long o/a , with a 2' head, and 1'9'' heel . The hardwood shaft is just over 1'' diameter. The blade has a strong median ridge and geometric designs. Attached Images

10th April 2015, 09:02 AM	#13
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	my maasai lion spear has a long butt spike with a round tapered blunt end that trasitions to square before the round socket. Attached Images

10th December 2010, 07:25 AM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Hi, I think this could be Bornu. The markings don't give much of a clue, these simple geometric patterns could be attributed to any number of groups in the area. Bornu, Kanem, Hausa cities, Mandingo, Mossi, all used similar cavalry lances. I usually go with the label Sahel when in doubt. I'm not sure there's much reference material for these, beyond the more distinctive Tuareg and Fulani examples. This seems to be a nice sturdy piece and always a pleasant surprise to see an example that hasn't been cut down. Thanks for posting it, I feel like these are an important part of the Sahel panoply that tend to get ignored for the more glamorous swords and daggers.

19th January 2012, 11:29 AM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Thanks Richmond! Always good to see these details as it helps to develop some sense of how to distinguish between the lances. This is quite different obviously then from the flat and flared butts encountered on Tuareg and in fact most other lances I have seen from the region. Great reference for the future!

20th January 2012, 09:43 AM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	Hello, Finally - after some years of asking re origin of this spear here in Nigeria, the spear should be comming from Katsina, Sokoto, Kano Emirates.

20th January 2012, 12:27 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	I just would like to add, that in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11889 I described the same spear as from Adamawa (because the seller told me so that time). After then I saw several others, some of them in Kano, and the prevalent opinion of local people was Katsina, Sokoto. Nevertheless, the most important for the assignation would be, I think, link to some old author... BTW - I have never seen particularly this spear complete in Nigeria - always only very rusty spearheads. I think this complete type of spear, i.e. with the shaft, is rare already. (When the local "antique-vendors" travel to the bush to bring new items for their antique shops in Abuja or Lagos, and they find complete spear, they always break off the spearhead. The reason is they are afraid of the many army check points on the roads and it is possible to hide spearhead better than the whole spear)

20th January 2012, 12:57 PM	#8
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Nice spear - but I don't think the iron butt part belongs - it looks like the butt from an East African Masai or similar spear that has added. Regards.

10th April 2015, 11:53 AM	#14
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Lovely spear! I love these elongated elegant spearheads with the central rib. I am guessing this one is quite heavy? Is it suitable for throwing?