Keris

GrozaB · 16th November 2015, 11:05 PM

Picked up yesterday my first Keris. It looks nice, has carved elephant ivory grip and one of the ugliest blades I ever saw

This is not my cup of tea, so I know pretty much nothing about it... Can someone tell me who/when made it? Looking on the ivory I think it is early 20th century, but I can be wrong...

Sajen · 18th November 2015, 05:40 PM

Hello GrozaB,

I think that your keris is from East Java or Madura, I count 13 luk. The blade is not a masterpiece of keris forging but the blade isn't ugly in my opinion. You need to take off the handle, I see a fresh crack in the ivory. I would clean the handle with warm water and soap and would give it a longer bath in baby oil, you can prevent by this maybe further cracking of the ivory, the tang (pesi) has maybe corrosion and bring the handle to fracturing. The oversheath (pendok) need to get flatten, you can make yourself a wooden tool for this in form of a oval stick. the pendok is not bad. It is a "good" first keris, I've seen many keris of lesser quality as first collector keris.
Age I would guess around 1900 but the blade could be older.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 18th November 2015, 07:21 PM

The blade & ivory hilt are typically Madurese but the scabbard is from Solo (Central Java).
Regards

GrozaB · 18th November 2015, 08:23 PM

Thank you for your input!
Question number one - how to remove handle?
Number two - it is fresh red rust on the blade. How to clean the blade on the keris? I'm used to smooth, polished blades and deeply etched keris blade is new to me... I don't want it to rust, but I don't want to remove patina etc ether...
Number three - I paid xxxx for this one on estate sale. Is it high, low? I tried to search eBay, but prices there is all over the place...

Edit:
We don't discuss value here; but having said that you got a good deal.

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2015, 08:36 PM

Yes Jean, I agree completely.

I will add, that for a Madurese blade of this period and style, it is a good example.

I will also add that I detest rap music --- ugliest excuse for music I've ever heard.

Don't like Picasso much either. Again, in my eyes, downright ugly work.

But many people disagree with me.

GrozaB · 18th November 2015, 09:37 PM

Sorry to call it "ugly" - I'm used to highly polished blades...

Green · 18th November 2015, 10:10 PM

This is a good catch in my opinion. And I am very partial to this donoriko style of hilt. It should NOT be tampered with and taken apart I think. With regards to the blade my opinion is also NOT to do anything and certinly do not overclean it.

I've seen some blades that have been overcleaned to a shiny surface which breaks my heart to look at. Keris are meant to retain the original surface texture and yours have some pamor that will be destroyed if cleaned agressively.

If you have to do anything it is only to get rid of the red rust but even so I don't see that it is a major problem here.

It's a good looking blade to me and to say that it is the ugliest you've ever seen is just like a guy who like me hates yogurt say it's the worst tasting food ever....

GrozaB · 18th November 2015, 10:21 PM

So, just use some oil to stop rust and leave surface as-is, right?

David · 18th November 2015, 11:02 PM

hmmmm....firstly i am going to absolutely disagree with our friend Green. Sorry Green. While it is indeed important not to "over clean" anything it must also be understood that keris blades are meant to be maintained with regular cleanings. So i would recommend that you either attend to this yourself or send it out to a professional for attention. As the current custodian of this keris it might even be seen as your responsibility.

Firstly, the surface texture that Green suggests you maintain here is not original to the blade. Keris blades all start out smooth. The topographic surface of a keris like this has developed over what has probably been at least a century of regular acid washings and blade staining with warangan (arsenic and lime juice). I'm not necessarily suggesting that you acid wash and stain this blade yourself. In fact, if this were in my hands i probably would not re-stain this blade even though i do have experience with the process. However, there are a number of things i absolutely would do. It would be much easier to give this blade the TLC that it needs if you detach the hilt from the blade. If there is movement in the hilt this should be very easy. Gently wiggle the handle back and forth while steadily attempting to pull it off the tang (pesi). I say gently with emphasis because your ivory hilt already has some damage and you do not want to crack it further.
Once the hilt is free you will probably find that the tang has a wrap of some kind of material around it to keep the hilt firmly in place. I would guess that there is a little bit too much of that material in place since the crack on your hilt seems to be opening due to the pressure. When you reassemble the pieces after cleaning i would wrap this with slightly less material so that the hilt crack does not bulge. It is better that there is a little movement in the hilt than for you to crack it further to keep it tight.
I would spray the blade complete down with WD-40 and go at it with a hard tooth brush. Let the WD-40 sit for a while first to help loosen the rust. This should not remove the darkened color from the warangan much at all. As for patina, while that is perhaps important for wooden parts (which i would oil btw) it is not the tradition for a well kept keris blade. As i stated, traditionally a blade would be regularly cleaned in an acid bath and re-stained. So what many deem as patina doesn't really accumulate on keris blades. You might also then work on some of the tougher rust areas with a metal needle and a magnifying glass. This would be especially helpful in the separation area where the gonjo meets the blade.
I would also use a polishing cloth on the brass pendok (no pastes or other cleaners though). This type of open pendok may well of had a piece of velvet material in the stem (black or red might look nice to me). Keep in mind that keris are part of a living tradition and are meant, among other things, to be an article of formal dress. They should not look like dingy artifacts of a dead culture. They should have sense of dignity about them.

I would follow through on Detlef's instructions for care of the ivory hilt. They get thirsty over time. When you reassemble the keristake care not to wrap the tang too much that the crack re-opens in the hilt.
As for "ugly", that is indeed an eye of the beholder kind of thing i suppose. If you still feel the same way about this blade after sprucing it up let me know and i will gladly take it off your hands.

16th November 2015, 11:05 PM	#1
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Keris Picked up yesterday my first Keris. It looks nice, has carved elephant ivory grip and one of the ugliest blades I ever saw This is not my cup of tea, so I know pretty much nothing about it... Can someone tell me who/when made it? Looking on the ivory I think it is early 20th century, but I can be wrong... Attached Images

18th November 2015, 05:40 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,497	Hello GrozaB, I think that your keris is from East Java or Madura, I count 13 luk. The blade is not a masterpiece of keris forging but the blade isn't ugly in my opinion. You need to take off the handle, I see a fresh crack in the ivory. I would clean the handle with warm water and soap and would give it a longer bath in baby oil, you can prevent by this maybe further cracking of the ivory, the tang (pesi) has maybe corrosion and bring the handle to fracturing. The oversheath (pendok) need to get flatten, you can make yourself a wooden tool for this in form of a oval stick. the pendok is not bad. It is a "good" first keris, I've seen many keris of lesser quality as first collector keris. Age I would guess around 1900 but the blade could be older. Regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 18th November 2015 at 07:38 PM.

18th November 2015, 07:21 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The blade & ivory hilt are typically Madurese but the scabbard is from Solo (Central Java). Regards

18th November 2015, 08:23 PM	#4
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Thank you for your input! Question number one - how to remove handle? Number two - it is fresh red rust on the blade. How to clean the blade on the keris? I'm used to smooth, polished blades and deeply etched keris blade is new to me... I don't want it to rust, but I don't want to remove patina etc ether... Number three - I paid xxxx for this one on estate sale. Is it high, low? I tried to search eBay, but prices there is all over the place... Edit: We don't discuss value here; but having said that you got a good deal.

18th November 2015, 08:36 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,704	Yes Jean, I agree completely. I will add, that for a Madurese blade of this period and style, it is a good example. I will also add that I detest rap music --- ugliest excuse for music I've ever heard. Don't like Picasso much either. Again, in my eyes, downright ugly work. But many people disagree with me.

18th November 2015, 09:37 PM	#6
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Sorry to call it "ugly" - I'm used to highly polished blades...

18th November 2015, 10:10 PM	#7
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 307	This is a good catch in my opinion. And I am very partial to this donoriko style of hilt. It should NOT be tampered with and taken apart I think. With regards to the blade my opinion is also NOT to do anything and certinly do not overclean it. I've seen some blades that have been overcleaned to a shiny surface which breaks my heart to look at. Keris are meant to retain the original surface texture and yours have some pamor that will be destroyed if cleaned agressively. If you have to do anything it is only to get rid of the red rust but even so I don't see that it is a major problem here. It's a good looking blade to me and to say that it is the ugliest you've ever seen is just like a guy who like me hates yogurt say it's the worst tasting food ever....

18th November 2015, 10:21 PM	#8
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	So, just use some oil to stop rust and leave surface as-is, right?

18th November 2015, 11:02 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,027	hmmmm....firstly i am going to absolutely disagree with our friend Green. Sorry Green. While it is indeed important not to "over clean" anything it must also be understood that keris blades are meant to be maintained with regular cleanings. So i would recommend that you either attend to this yourself or send it out to a professional for attention. As the current custodian of this keris it might even be seen as your responsibility. Firstly, the surface texture that Green suggests you maintain here is not original to the blade. Keris blades all start out smooth. The topographic surface of a keris like this has developed over what has probably been at least a century of regular acid washings and blade staining with warangan (arsenic and lime juice). I'm not necessarily suggesting that you acid wash and stain this blade yourself. In fact, if this were in my hands i probably would not re-stain this blade even though i do have experience with the process. However, there are a number of things i absolutely would do. It would be much easier to give this blade the TLC that it needs if you detach the hilt from the blade. If there is movement in the hilt this should be very easy. Gently wiggle the handle back and forth while steadily attempting to pull it off the tang (pesi). I say gently with emphasis because your ivory hilt already has some damage and you do not want to crack it further. Once the hilt is free you will probably find that the tang has a wrap of some kind of material around it to keep the hilt firmly in place. I would guess that there is a little bit too much of that material in place since the crack on your hilt seems to be opening due to the pressure. When you reassemble the pieces after cleaning i would wrap this with slightly less material so that the hilt crack does not bulge. It is better that there is a little movement in the hilt than for you to crack it further to keep it tight. I would spray the blade complete down with WD-40 and go at it with a hard tooth brush. Let the WD-40 sit for a while first to help loosen the rust. This should not remove the darkened color from the warangan much at all. As for patina, while that is perhaps important for wooden parts (which i would oil btw) it is not the tradition for a well kept keris blade. As i stated, traditionally a blade would be regularly cleaned in an acid bath and re-stained. So what many deem as patina doesn't really accumulate on keris blades. You might also then work on some of the tougher rust areas with a metal needle and a magnifying glass. This would be especially helpful in the separation area where the gonjo meets the blade. I would also use a polishing cloth on the brass pendok (no pastes or other cleaners though). This type of open pendok may well of had a piece of velvet material in the stem (black or red might look nice to me). Keep in mind that keris are part of a living tradition and are meant, among other things, to be an article of formal dress. They should not look like dingy artifacts of a dead culture. They should have sense of dignity about them. I would follow through on Detlef's instructions for care of the ivory hilt. They get thirsty over time. When you reassemble the keristake care not to wrap the tang too much that the crack re-opens in the hilt. As for "ugly", that is indeed an eye of the beholder kind of thing i suppose. If you still feel the same way about this blade after sprucing it up let me know and i will gladly take it off your hands.