Moro Arabic? And MANY other questions...

KuKulzA28 · 7th January 2009, 09:03 AM

Hello. This may be the wrong place for this; please move it if it is.
I am planning to make a wood carving featuring a battle between Moros and Spaniards. I intend to have war cries above the opposing sides, "La ilaha il-la'l-lahu" (There is no God but Allah) and "¡Santiago!". Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those were common war-cries of the Moros and the Conquistadores. Hopefully I can have the Moro warcry in their script, and the Spanish Santiago in 16th century Spanish cursive. I've heard of Baybayin, but I don't know much about it, and I'm not sure whether the Moros used Arabic script or Baybayin, or any writing at all. I intend to have all the warriors in historically accurate clothes and armor, and using historically accurate weapons.

There's a lot I don't know. Because I have so many questions... I'll try to divy them up to make them more organized. I hope you guys can discuss and hopefully help me find the answers. Thanks.

Writing Styles

Did the Moros use an Arabic script? If so, any examples of it?
If not, what was the most common type, and what is the phrase in that type?
Does contemporary Spanish writing differ from the 16th Century? If so, in what ways?

Appearances

Did the Christian Filipino allies of the Spanish have any particular uniform or did they wear their traditional attire?
If uniformed, then any examples? If not, any examples of Cebuano clothing?
What were the most common Moro weapons? Spears? Kris? Kampilan? Barongs? In what order?
Was carabao-mail a popular type of armor, or did most Moros go with just clothing?
What were the Spaniards' most popular weapons? Rapier? Cutacha? Arquebus? Lance? How common was cavalry?
What was the most popular armor(s) for the Conquistadores in the Philippines at the time? Did Mexican reinforcements dress the same?
Any Chinese involved in these fights or were they the stereotypical traders, coolies, and pirates of the Hoklo/Hakka/Fujian origin?

Military Tactics

Did the Moros use any type of "formation" when they charged the enemy?
Did they use any use of missiles in open combat, like arrows, javelins, or lantaka - or was it more of a charge?
Did either side make use of shields, and if so, any formations to that?
How common was Spanish artillery on Filipino battlefields? What was the most common type?

I appreciate the help, and I hope a lot of information can be discussed with regards to this. One could probably write a book or two in answering my questions, but in this case simple descriptions and lots of pictures would probably be the best answers.
I know this isn't an antique weapon, and nor will the carving be antique at all... but it has to do with the military history between Spanish Conquistadores and Moros. The topics covered here span both European and Ethnographic sections, but it's mainly the Philippines setting. Again, if this is the wrong place for it, moderators please move. Thanks people!

KuKulzA28 · 8th January 2009, 04:33 AM

[bump]

VANDOO · 8th January 2009, 06:30 PM

THERE IS A SERIES OF POSTERS PUT OUT BY THE US MARINE CORPS ONE FEATURES A BATTLE AGAINST THE MORO. I THINK IT IS MOSTLY ACCURATE IN THE UNIFORMS WORN AND THE WEAPONS USED AND IS VERY COLORFUL AND ATTRACTIVE. THERE IS AN OLD POST ON IT IN THE FORUM ARCHIVES, SEARCH UNDER MORO BATTLE SCENE, POSTED BY LOUIEBLADES ,3/28/2004.

I HAVE TWO OF THE MORO POSTERS BUT HAVE NOT GOTTEN ONE FRAMED AS YET.

I SUSPECT THAT THE MAJORITY OF MORO WARRIORS DID NOT HAVE SPANISH HELMETS OR ARMOR AS THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT TO COME BY AND I AM SURE THE DEMAND WAS HIGHER THAN THE SUPPLY AS THE SPANISH WERE VASTLY OUTNUMBERED IN THE AREAS WHERE THE MORO LIVED. THAT WOULD ALSO APPLY TO THE CARABOU HORN ARMOR AS WELL AS ONLY THE WEALTHY COULD AFFORD IT.
BUT I AM SURE MOST ANY POOR WARRIOR MANAGED TO GET FIRST A SPEAR AND SHIELD AND THEN A SWORD AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BY TAKEING IT OFF A FALLEN ENEMY OR TRADEING LOOT OR SLAVES TAKEN IN RAIDS OR BATTLES FOR HIS EQUIPMENT. THERE ARE PROBABLY POSTS FEATURING THE TRADITIONAL CLOTHES WORN BY THE VARIOUS MORO GROUPS OR IT CAN PROBABLY BE FOUND BY SEARCHES ON THE INTERNET. ONE THING MENTIONED IN SEVERAL MILITARY ACCOUNTS WAS THE TIEING OF CLOTH AROUND THE ARMS AND LEGS OF THE WARRIORS BEFORE BATTLE TO SLOW DOWN BLEEDING IN THE EXTREMITYS SO THEY WOULD NOT LOOSE THEIR STRENGTH AS FAST AND STILL GET TO THEIR ENEMYS WITH THEIR SWORD OR SPEAR BEFORE THEY FELL. GOOD LUCK ON YOUR PROJECT.

KuKulzA28 · 10th January 2009, 05:52 AM

Thanks Vandoo, I'll look into those resources.
If I find anything I'll definitely post it here, so that at least others can benefit and not have to sift through lots of information to find these details.

If anyone else would like to share their knowledge, please do!

VANDOO · 10th January 2009, 09:58 PM

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

IN ART WHY NOT USE THE EPIC SHOWDOWN BETWEEN THE TWO GREATEST WARRIORS FROM EACH SIDE WITH THE BEST AND MOST SPECTACULAR EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE. IN REALITY THE BEST WARRIOR MAY HAVE BEEN WEARING NOTHING BUT A BREECH CLOTH AND HEADBAND AND CARRING A RATHER PLAIN SWORD, SHIELD AND SPEAR BUT WHO WANTS TO SEE THAT. WE WANT CONAN THE BARBARIAN.

Dimasalang · 16th January 2009, 06:27 PM

I believe this is the poster/mural VANDOO mentioned previously. Hope this helps.

KuKulzA28 · 17th January 2009, 08:04 AM

I've seen that, it's very nice, had it on my desktop for a bit.

I having a new approach now. I am going to have 7 soldiers in the carving, more is just beyond my skills at this point. It'll be a small jungle skirmish. Tell me if the profiles seem correct.

Datu ------ in Moro armor holding a Kampilan & shield
Krisman --- with a Kalis Taluseko, and a shield. Normal attire.
Tausug ---- tribesman with a barong, budiak spear, and shield. Normal attire.
Tausug ---- holding a panabas and trailing group. Normal attire.
Spaniard -- In armor, armed with a rapier and dagger.
Spaniard -- With a cuirass and holding an arquebus. Long knife in belt?
Cebuano -- In traditional attire? Wielding a Talibon ...and shield?

I have dug up old pictures of Moros, and moro armor and their weapons. Conquistadores aren't too hard to find.
But a Cebuano warrior under the Spanish regime? What was his look? Still wearing tattoos like his ancestors or was that no longer practiced? Still wearing the small jacket and tribal clothes, or a poor man's barong-tagalog, or Hispanic clothes? Did he have a talibon or his working bolo? I'm sure Spanish troops wanted to have well armed auxiliaries, like they had in Mexico - fierce Tlaxcalans against the Aztecs. The Cebuano is the biggest mystery for me... cause he dress, spoke, and lived differently from the days before Megallan, the days under Spanish occupation, and there on after. Anyone have suggestions? References I can see? Websites to recommend?

7th January 2009, 09:03 AM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Moro Arabic? And MANY other questions... Hello. This may be the wrong place for this; please move it if it is. I am planning to make a wood carving featuring a battle between Moros and Spaniards. I intend to have war cries above the opposing sides, "La ilaha il-la'l-lahu" (There is no God but Allah) and "¡Santiago!". Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those were common war-cries of the Moros and the Conquistadores. Hopefully I can have the Moro warcry in their script, and the Spanish Santiago in 16th century Spanish cursive. I've heard of Baybayin, but I don't know much about it, and I'm not sure whether the Moros used Arabic script or Baybayin, or any writing at all. I intend to have all the warriors in historically accurate clothes and armor, and using historically accurate weapons. There's a lot I don't know. Because I have so many questions... I'll try to divy them up to make them more organized. I hope you guys can discuss and hopefully help me find the answers. Thanks. Writing Styles Did the Moros use an Arabic script? If so, any examples of it? If not, what was the most common type, and what is the phrase in that type? Does contemporary Spanish writing differ from the 16th Century? If so, in what ways? Appearances Did the Christian Filipino allies of the Spanish have any particular uniform or did they wear their traditional attire? If uniformed, then any examples? If not, any examples of Cebuano clothing? What were the most common Moro weapons? Spears? Kris? Kampilan? Barongs? In what order? Was carabao-mail a popular type of armor, or did most Moros go with just clothing? What were the Spaniards' most popular weapons? Rapier? Cutacha? Arquebus? Lance? How common was cavalry? What was the most popular armor(s) for the Conquistadores in the Philippines at the time? Did Mexican reinforcements dress the same? Any Chinese involved in these fights or were they the stereotypical traders, coolies, and pirates of the Hoklo/Hakka/Fujian origin? Military Tactics Did the Moros use any type of "formation" when they charged the enemy? Did they use any use of missiles in open combat, like arrows, javelins, or lantaka - or was it more of a charge? Did either side make use of shields, and if so, any formations to that? How common was Spanish artillery on Filipino battlefields? What was the most common type? I appreciate the help, and I hope a lot of information can be discussed with regards to this. One could probably write a book or two in answering my questions, but in this case simple descriptions and lots of pictures would probably be the best answers. I know this isn't an antique weapon, and nor will the carving be antique at all... but it has to do with the military history between Spanish Conquistadores and Moros. The topics covered here span both European and Ethnographic sections, but it's mainly the Philippines setting. Again, if this is the wrong place for it, moderators please move. Thanks people! Last edited by KuKulzA28; 7th January 2009 at 12:55 PM.

17th January 2009, 08:04 AM	#7
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I've seen that, it's very nice, had it on my desktop for a bit. I having a new approach now. I am going to have 7 soldiers in the carving, more is just beyond my skills at this point. It'll be a small jungle skirmish. Tell me if the profiles seem correct. Datu ------ in Moro armor holding a Kampilan & shield Krisman --- with a Kalis Taluseko, and a shield. Normal attire. Tausug ---- tribesman with a barong, budiak spear, and shield. Normal attire. Tausug ---- holding a panabas and trailing group. Normal attire. Spaniard -- In armor, armed with a rapier and dagger. Spaniard -- With a cuirass and holding an arquebus. Long knife in belt? Cebuano -- In traditional attire? Wielding a Talibon ...and shield? I have dug up old pictures of Moros, and moro armor and their weapons. Conquistadores aren't too hard to find. But a Cebuano warrior under the Spanish regime? What was his look? Still wearing tattoos like his ancestors or was that no longer practiced? Still wearing the small jacket and tribal clothes, or a poor man's barong-tagalog, or Hispanic clothes? Did he have a talibon or his working bolo? I'm sure Spanish troops wanted to have well armed auxiliaries, like they had in Mexico - fierce Tlaxcalans against the Aztecs. The Cebuano is the biggest mystery for me... cause he dress, spoke, and lived differently from the days before Megallan, the days under Spanish occupation, and there on after. Anyone have suggestions? References I can see? Websites to recommend? Last edited by KuKulzA28; 17th January 2009 at 08:15 AM.

8th January 2009, 04:33 AM	#2
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	[bump]

8th January 2009, 06:30 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE IS A SERIES OF POSTERS PUT OUT BY THE US MARINE CORPS ONE FEATURES A BATTLE AGAINST THE MORO. I THINK IT IS MOSTLY ACCURATE IN THE UNIFORMS WORN AND THE WEAPONS USED AND IS VERY COLORFUL AND ATTRACTIVE. THERE IS AN OLD POST ON IT IN THE FORUM ARCHIVES, SEARCH UNDER MORO BATTLE SCENE, POSTED BY LOUIEBLADES ,3/28/2004. I HAVE TWO OF THE MORO POSTERS BUT HAVE NOT GOTTEN ONE FRAMED AS YET. I SUSPECT THAT THE MAJORITY OF MORO WARRIORS DID NOT HAVE SPANISH HELMETS OR ARMOR AS THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT TO COME BY AND I AM SURE THE DEMAND WAS HIGHER THAN THE SUPPLY AS THE SPANISH WERE VASTLY OUTNUMBERED IN THE AREAS WHERE THE MORO LIVED. THAT WOULD ALSO APPLY TO THE CARABOU HORN ARMOR AS WELL AS ONLY THE WEALTHY COULD AFFORD IT. BUT I AM SURE MOST ANY POOR WARRIOR MANAGED TO GET FIRST A SPEAR AND SHIELD AND THEN A SWORD AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BY TAKEING IT OFF A FALLEN ENEMY OR TRADEING LOOT OR SLAVES TAKEN IN RAIDS OR BATTLES FOR HIS EQUIPMENT. THERE ARE PROBABLY POSTS FEATURING THE TRADITIONAL CLOTHES WORN BY THE VARIOUS MORO GROUPS OR IT CAN PROBABLY BE FOUND BY SEARCHES ON THE INTERNET. ONE THING MENTIONED IN SEVERAL MILITARY ACCOUNTS WAS THE TIEING OF CLOTH AROUND THE ARMS AND LEGS OF THE WARRIORS BEFORE BATTLE TO SLOW DOWN BLEEDING IN THE EXTREMITYS SO THEY WOULD NOT LOOSE THEIR STRENGTH AS FAST AND STILL GET TO THEIR ENEMYS WITH THEIR SWORD OR SPEAR BEFORE THEY FELL. GOOD LUCK ON YOUR PROJECT.

10th January 2009, 05:52 AM	#4
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Thanks Vandoo, I'll look into those resources. If I find anything I'll definitely post it here, so that at least others can benefit and not have to sift through lots of information to find these details. If anyone else would like to share their knowledge, please do!

10th January 2009, 09:58 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	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

16th January 2009, 06:27 PM	#6
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	I believe this is the poster/mural VANDOO mentioned previously. Hope this helps.