Pala or Kilij ??

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 25th May 2023, 09:52 PM

Picked this one up recently, would appreciate some ideas on it, age origin, etc, know there are many people here who will be able to educate me.
Blade looks a little tired and likely due to some idiot without the skills to polish and etch it having tried to and failed badly, the hilt is Rhino horn and back spine hilt strap is silver, as are the ends of the cross guard.

I will give it a proper polish and etch and hopefully a scarf welded blade with Turkish ladder will pop, if not well it is a nice piece anyway.
Could it be wootz, are any of them ??, and more importantly is it 18thc as I suspect.

werecow · 25th May 2023, 10:48 PM

Tired or not, I love these kinds of swords, especially when extra curvy! And I like the complex fullers on this one.

Oliver Pinchot · 25th May 2023, 11:43 PM

Kilic means a sword in Turkish. Pala refers to this particular type of sword.

This example is Persian work, mid-19th c at the earliest. The blade is almost certainly wootz, should respond easily so no need to polish with a heavy grit abrasive.

best of luck

Rick · 26th May 2023, 12:19 AM

Yep, some idiot has gone to town on this blade; notice how rounded the edges of the fullering are.
Sad to see such desecration of a piece of history such as this.

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 26th May 2023, 01:41 AM

Warecow, yes the shape is very pretty, indeed awesome and also very practical to for cutting and stabbing in close quarter I would say, the tiredness will not show so much after proper polish and etch.

Oliver, I don't use course sandpapers so do not worry, only a fool would use such things for this job.

Rick, it is possible to bring those edges back, takes some doing but is possible for sure with the right tools and patience but would be a job that needs doing by hand, not sure I will attempt it but I will certainly give it a fine polish and etch to see what may be there.

I was hoping it was Ottoman so would show a possible scarf weld at the forte and heaped Turkish ladder pattern as I prefer it to wootz, I am not a fan of wootz personally, think it is over rated although obviously expensive and valuable in certain circles of collecting.
That said wootz will do for me if it is when the job is done.

I bought the sword for resale after having a go at sorting it out a bit, looked to me worthy of the job, when done I will show some better pics, my camera is damaged at present and a new one on its way to me and not having an existential crisis rectangle as most humans do these days means I have to wait for it to arrive, the pics here are from the auction it came from with altered background.

Snody

Interested Party · 26th May 2023, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

The blade is almost certainly wootz, should respond easily so no need to polish with a heavy grit abrasive.

What would you call a heavy grit abrasive? At what grit would you begin the process? Finally, how fine a grit would you eventually finish with?

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 26th May 2023, 05:20 PM

For this I will start with 800 grit maybe 1000, good papers and not the rubbish sold on ebay, then take it on up through 1200, 1500, etc etc to 8000 grit and then finish with a talc powder and water compound I mix myself and work with cotton cloth.
That should do the job well enough to bring out the wootz if it is wootz, and if it is not wootz as I suspect then whatever Damascus laminate type build is there will certainly show up.

Snody

serdar · 30th May 2023, 01:58 PM

Definitly kilij look a like, not pala, pala is allmost straight blade, with t spine, upward quilions and bird handle like karabela, they are very rare.
This is 19 ct indo/persian kilij look a like.

25th May 2023, 09:52 PM	#1
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Pala or Kilij ?? Picked this one up recently, would appreciate some ideas on it, age origin, etc, know there are many people here who will be able to educate me. Blade looks a little tired and likely due to some idiot without the skills to polish and etch it having tried to and failed badly, the hilt is Rhino horn and back spine hilt strap is silver, as are the ends of the cross guard. I will give it a proper polish and etch and hopefully a scarf welded blade with Turkish ladder will pop, if not well it is a nice piece anyway. Could it be wootz, are any of them ??, and more importantly is it 18thc as I suspect. Attached Images

26th May 2023, 01:41 AM	#5
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Thanks to all 3 members for your comments and information. Warecow, yes the shape is very pretty, indeed awesome and also very practical to for cutting and stabbing in close quarter I would say, the tiredness will not show so much after proper polish and etch. Oliver, I don't use course sandpapers so do not worry, only a fool would use such things for this job. Rick, it is possible to bring those edges back, takes some doing but is possible for sure with the right tools and patience but would be a job that needs doing by hand, not sure I will attempt it but I will certainly give it a fine polish and etch to see what may be there. I was hoping it was Ottoman so would show a possible scarf weld at the forte and heaped Turkish ladder pattern as I prefer it to wootz, I am not a fan of wootz personally, think it is over rated although obviously expensive and valuable in certain circles of collecting. That said wootz will do for me if it is when the job is done. I bought the sword for resale after having a go at sorting it out a bit, looked to me worthy of the job, when done I will show some better pics, my camera is damaged at present and a new one on its way to me and not having an existential crisis rectangle as most humans do these days means I have to wait for it to arrive, the pics here are from the auction it came from with altered background. Snody

26th May 2023, 05:20 PM	#7
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Grit's !! For this I will start with 800 grit maybe 1000, good papers and not the rubbish sold on ebay, then take it on up through 1200, 1500, etc etc to 8000 grit and then finish with a talc powder and water compound I mix myself and work with cotton cloth. That should do the job well enough to bring out the wootz if it is wootz, and if it is not wootz as I suspect then whatever Damascus laminate type build is there will certainly show up. Snody Last edited by Ian; 31st May 2023 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Removed advertising of future sale. Not permitted in discussion forums.

25th May 2023, 10:48 PM	#2
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 432	Tired or not, I love these kinds of swords, especially when extra curvy! And I like the complex fullers on this one.

25th May 2023, 11:43 PM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 456	Kilic means a sword in Turkish. Pala refers to this particular type of sword. This example is Persian work, mid-19th c at the earliest. The blade is almost certainly wootz, should respond easily so no need to polish with a heavy grit abrasive. best of luck

26th May 2023, 12:19 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Yep, some idiot has gone to town on this blade; notice how rounded the edges of the fullering are. Sad to see such desecration of a piece of history such as this.

30th May 2023, 01:58 PM	#8
serdar Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 53	Definitly kilij look a like, not pala, pala is allmost straight blade, with t spine, upward quilions and bird handle like karabela, they are very rare. This is 19 ct indo/persian kilij look a like.