Pictures Please (Sikh Sword)

Rick · 9th May 2007, 04:39 PM

Kirach

I see so few examples of this sword type; if you have an image of one would you kindly post it ?

Thanks

Jens Nordlunde · 9th May 2007, 05:17 PM

Hi Rick,

It is a lovely sword you show, and a very good picture as well, but I am afraid the not many have a Kirach, as they are not common, especially if you want a good piece like yours.

The only one I have, which comes close is, what I believe to be a hunting sword, but on all the others, the tip turns in the wrong direction. On both sides is an inscription, on the one side in Farsi and on the other side in Urdu, both inscriptions say ‘Spring’ which is a family name in India, but it can also refer to that the hunting season starts in spring.

Jens

galvano · 9th May 2007, 05:28 PM

hi
the sikh sword it is not the khanda ?
galvano

Lew · 9th May 2007, 05:31 PM

Found one on Artzi's site.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=406

http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/photos.php?id=1583

Lew

Rick · 9th May 2007, 05:35 PM

That's a beautiful sword Jens.
From what I have gathered so far I understand this form is a thrusting sword.

More pictures .. anyone ?
Thanks Lew!

Lew · 9th May 2007, 06:34 PM

Posted more pics.

Lew

Flavio · 9th May 2007, 07:30 PM

Beautiful pieces Jens and Rick!!!! Unfortunately I haven't a kirach, but I found a picture of a kirach on what a think is an Oldman catalogue (...but the picture is quit bad

)

Rick · 9th May 2007, 08:33 PM

Thanks Flavio.

Interesting to see that the example you show is a basket hilt too.

Jim McDougall · 9th May 2007, 08:37 PM

Hi Galvano,
You're right, the sword traditionally held as sacred by the Sikhs is the khanda, however as well pointed out by Jens and the others, the kirach was also favored. More difficult to identify specifically as Sikh are the tulwars, which were commonly used by Sikhs in combat. There are sometimes mottos or wording found under the hilt on some of these, but more often they are relatively unmarked. As one Sikh I was speaking with described when asked how to properly identify a Sikh sword..."if the sword was used by a Sikh, then any sword is a Sikh sword"!

All the best,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 10th May 2007, 04:37 PM

Hi Rick,

Yes, I too believe them to be trusting swords. The way I see it, it would be excellent to use, by someone who was riding, on something lower than himself, a food soldier or maybe a deer, there would have been quite a lot of power behind the trust.

The funny thing with mine is, that the hand guard can be screwed off. Figiel had a sword with the same kind of hilt on his auction, I wonder if his hand guard could also be removed.

Rick · 10th May 2007, 05:23 PM

Removable knucklebow ?!?
A very interesting feature Jens; if your example is a hunting sword it would be very good for the final thrust to the animal's heart.

I was poking through the notes and index in Elgood's Hindu Arms and from what I have been able to gather from his notes the swords with the more acute downcurving points are from the Deccan, and that the Kirach was the sword issued to Sikh Artillerymen .

I still am stymied as to why there are so few examples to be seen .

Maybe there just weren't that many Artillerymen .........

Jens Nordlunde · 11th May 2007, 02:16 PM

Compared to all the other soldiers in the armies, I believe there were relatively few artillerymen. I don’t think they had canons enough

.

I did not, by briefly looking through the Marlborough House book, find the sword Robert Elgood refers to, but I found another one, which Heldley calls a tulwar, but from the description, and from the picture, it is clear that it must be a kirach. The Maharaja of Jaipur presented #163 to prince Edward during his visit to India.

Rick · 11th May 2007, 02:25 PM

Thank you for the picture Jens !

Too true; if they really were the weapon of an Artilleryman then there would be relatively few examples of the form .

Sikh_soldier · 12th May 2007, 07:08 PM

Hello all,

What Jim said is absolutely correct; for a skh any weapon is highly regarded.
however, the khanda and the tulwar are firm favourites!

Here is a picture (bad quality

) of antique weapons of Sikhs which are said to be part of the collection of sri Guru Gobind Singh ji (10th Guru)

spiral · 13th May 2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Too true; if they really were the weapon of an Artilleryman then there would be relatively few examples of the form .

Indeed. According to Lieutenant-General Sir Harry Smith, baronet of Aliwal on the Sutlej, G.C.B.. in 1839 it was estimated by the British Army that the Sikhs had.

120,000 Regular Infantry,40,000 Cavalry, regular and irregular & 400 pieces of cannon ready to take the field, So not that many artillary men in comparison indeed.

Although of course after the first Sikh war there numbers were seriously reduced & over 50% of thier cannon captured.

Large numbers of sword trophys were also brought back by individule & indeed regiments to England at that time.

I have a sikh lilly leaf kukri with tulwar grip captured in the first Sikh war, sadley most such bring back items have lost thier provinance over the years.

Spiral

9th May 2007, 05:17 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Rick, It is a lovely sword you show, and a very good picture as well, but I am afraid the not many have a Kirach, as they are not common, especially if you want a good piece like yours. The only one I have, which comes close is, what I believe to be a hunting sword, but on all the others, the tip turns in the wrong direction. On both sides is an inscription, on the one side in Farsi and on the other side in Urdu, both inscriptions say ‘Spring’ which is a family name in India, but it can also refer to that the hunting season starts in spring. Jens Attached Images

9th May 2007, 05:28 PM	#3
galvano Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 176	sikh hi the sikh sword it is not the khanda ? galvano

9th May 2007, 05:31 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Found one on Artzi's site. http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=406 http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/photos.php?id=1583 Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 9th May 2007 at 06:32 PM.

9th May 2007, 07:30 PM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Beautiful pieces Jens and Rick!!!! Unfortunately I haven't a kirach, but I found a picture of a kirach on what a think is an Oldman catalogue (...but the picture is quit bad ) Attached Images

10th May 2007, 04:37 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Rick, Yes, I too believe them to be trusting swords. The way I see it, it would be excellent to use, by someone who was riding, on something lower than himself, a food soldier or maybe a deer, there would have been quite a lot of power behind the trust. The funny thing with mine is, that the hand guard can be screwed off. Figiel had a sword with the same kind of hilt on his auction, I wonder if his hand guard could also be removed. Attached Images

9th May 2007, 04:39 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Pictures Please (Sikh Sword) Kirach I see so few examples of this sword type; if you have an image of one would you kindly post it ? Thanks Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 9th May 2007 at 05:15 PM.

9th May 2007, 05:35 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	That's a beautiful sword Jens. From what I have gathered so far I understand this form is a thrusting sword. More pictures .. anyone ? Thanks Lew!

9th May 2007, 06:34 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Posted more pics. Lew

9th May 2007, 08:33 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Thanks Flavio. Interesting to see that the example you show is a basket hilt too.

9th May 2007, 08:37 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Hi Galvano, You're right, the sword traditionally held as sacred by the Sikhs is the khanda, however as well pointed out by Jens and the others, the kirach was also favored. More difficult to identify specifically as Sikh are the tulwars, which were commonly used by Sikhs in combat. There are sometimes mottos or wording found under the hilt on some of these, but more often they are relatively unmarked. As one Sikh I was speaking with described when asked how to properly identify a Sikh sword..."if the sword was used by a Sikh, then any sword is a Sikh sword"! All the best, Jim

10th May 2007, 05:23 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Removable knucklebow ?!? A very interesting feature Jens; if your example is a hunting sword it would be very good for the final thrust to the animal's heart. I was poking through the notes and index in Elgood's Hindu Arms and from what I have been able to gather from his notes the swords with the more acute downcurving points are from the Deccan, and that the Kirach was the sword issued to Sikh Artillerymen . I still am stymied as to why there are so few examples to be seen . Maybe there just weren't that many Artillerymen .........

11th May 2007, 02:16 PM	#12
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Compared to all the other soldiers in the armies, I believe there were relatively few artillerymen. I don’t think they had canons enough. I did not, by briefly looking through the Marlborough House book, find the sword Robert Elgood refers to, but I found another one, which Heldley calls a tulwar, but from the description, and from the picture, it is clear that it must be a kirach. The Maharaja of Jaipur presented #163 to prince Edward during his visit to India. Attached Images

11th May 2007, 02:25 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Thank you for the picture Jens ! Too true; if they really were the weapon of an Artilleryman then there would be relatively few examples of the form .

12th May 2007, 07:08 PM	#14
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	swords swords swords Hello all, What Jim said is absolutely correct; for a skh any weapon is highly regarded. however, the khanda and the tulwar are firm favourites! Here is a picture (bad quality ) of antique weapons of Sikhs which are said to be part of the collection of sri Guru Gobind Singh ji (10th Guru) Attached Images