New Member's questions

Raymond · 21st October 2013, 03:36 AM

Hi All, My name is Ray and I live in Corpus Christi, Texas, USA. I am a new member and I would like to thank the moderators for allowing my posting privileges.

Mostly I will be a "lurker" because I have sold off my collection of edged weapons from North Africa, the Mideast, Europe, the Americas and Imperial/WWI/WWII items. (It was a small collection and I am now 71 years old).

However, I did keep these two kerises and holders.

So I submit my opinion of these items for correction/verification by the expertise of the forum members.

1) The holders: Balinese Dancers? or characters (Dewi Sita/Saha Dewa) of the Hindu Ramayan Epic?

2) The Java Keris has a Pamor of "scattered rice"? THe Maduran Pamor is "running water"?

3) Does the separate ganja of the Maduran blade indicate an older manufacture? Any guesses?

4) I would think that the holders are recent manufacture because of the round bases. Any opinions of age?

5) Is it ok to assume the "dress" is circa 1950?

Looking forward to expert opinion!!

Ray

PS: I didn't grt the photos in order and some were too "big". I'll try to do better!

David · 22nd October 2013, 12:26 AM

Hi Raymond. Welcome to the forum. You are correct that your keris holders are of recent manufacture. Your Madurese keris seems to be in a variation of what is commonly referred to as "soldier" dress, a style which was popular among dutch soldiers who brought these keris back as souvenirs from their tour of duty their. The style continues to be used to this day and i would imagine this sheath is fairly contemporary. I cannot comment much on the blade from the images you present other than to say it seems to have a crudely carved sokogan which may have been added later. A separate gonjo is not an indicator of age in indonesian keris.
That blade in your Javanese dress does not look Javanese to me. Seems it might be of Bugis origins, but again the photographs don't show the blade well enough for a full accounting.
The hilts on both of these keris should probably be turned 45 degrees towards the front of the blade.

Raymond · 22nd October 2013, 03:48 PM

Hi David, Thank you for the information!

Ray

Sajen · 22nd October 2013, 06:01 PM

Hi Raymond,

agree in all points with David. Additional is to say that the keris holders are from Bali and like David write recent.

Welcome to the forum!

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 23rd October 2013, 09:10 AM

The figures depicted on the kris holders may be Rama and Sita but I am not sure

Regards

Raymond · 24th October 2013, 12:50 AM

Thanks Sajen and Jean for your comments!

David, you are correct about the Java dress kerise's blade - I think I did swap blades with a damaged Bugis keris. As I recall, the handle was Garuda which is Bugisi.

21st October 2013, 03:36 AM	#1
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	New Member's questions Hi All, My name is Ray and I live in Corpus Christi, Texas, USA. I am a new member and I would like to thank the moderators for allowing my posting privileges. Mostly I will be a "lurker" because I have sold off my collection of edged weapons from North Africa, the Mideast, Europe, the Americas and Imperial/WWI/WWII items. (It was a small collection and I am now 71 years old). However, I did keep these two kerises and holders. So I submit my opinion of these items for correction/verification by the expertise of the forum members. 1) The holders: Balinese Dancers? or characters (Dewi Sita/Saha Dewa) of the Hindu Ramayan Epic? 2) The Java Keris has a Pamor of "scattered rice"? THe Maduran Pamor is "running water"? 3) Does the separate ganja of the Maduran blade indicate an older manufacture? Any guesses? 4) I would think that the holders are recent manufacture because of the round bases. Any opinions of age? 5) Is it ok to assume the "dress" is circa 1950? Looking forward to expert opinion!! Ray PS: I didn't grt the photos in order and some were too "big". I'll try to do better! Attached Images

22nd October 2013, 12:26 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	Hi Raymond. Welcome to the forum. You are correct that your keris holders are of recent manufacture. Your Madurese keris seems to be in a variation of what is commonly referred to as "soldier" dress, a style which was popular among dutch soldiers who brought these keris back as souvenirs from their tour of duty their. The style continues to be used to this day and i would imagine this sheath is fairly contemporary. I cannot comment much on the blade from the images you present other than to say it seems to have a crudely carved sokogan which may have been added later. A separate gonjo is not an indicator of age in indonesian keris. That blade in your Javanese dress does not look Javanese to me. Seems it might be of Bugis origins, but again the photographs don't show the blade well enough for a full accounting. The hilts on both of these keris should probably be turned 45 degrees towards the front of the blade.

22nd October 2013, 03:48 PM	#3
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	Hi David, Thank you for the information! Ray

22nd October 2013, 06:01 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Hi Raymond, agree in all points with David. Additional is to say that the keris holders are from Bali and like David write recent. Welcome to the forum! Regards, Detlef

23rd October 2013, 09:10 AM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The figures depicted on the kris holders may be Rama and Sita but I am not sure Regards

24th October 2013, 12:50 AM	#6
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	Thanks Sajen and Jean for your comments! David, you are correct about the Java dress kerise's blade - I think I did swap blades with a damaged Bugis keris. As I recall, the handle was Garuda which is Bugisi.