Ethno Weapons World Map

Edster · 15th June 2012, 05:09 PM

Open idea to the Forum:

What do you all think about developing an interactive world map that shows where and what ethnographic weapons are still in common use today? It would exclude cultural relics or museum pieces but only include weapons that continue today to play a active cultural role in the parent society as the jambiya (dress use) and dancing swords in Oman or the kaskara in Sudan as a wedding symbol and no doubt as an active weapon in parts of the Butana or the Sudan-Ethiopian borderlands. Bows and arrows are still active in Papua New Guinea, although the regular machette or bush knife has the chief role as tool and weapon, but guns are creeping into the Highlands. Puukas still enjoy field use in Finland. My personal knowledge base is limited, but there are wide array of active weapons-ethnic groups observed in several recent posts.

Perhaps members could submit ethnic groups, their geographical range and photographs of the weapons still in common use along with commentary. This info would then be managed and placed on a map by someone with those graphics and database skills.

What do we think?

Regards,
Ed

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th June 2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

Open idea to the Forum:

What do you all think about developing an interactive world map that shows where and what ethnographic weapons are still in common use today? It would exclude cultural relics or museum pieces but only include weapons that continue today to play a active cultural role in the parent society as the jambiya (dress use) and dancing swords in Oman or the kaskara in Sudan as a wedding symbol and no doubt as an active weapon in parts of the Butana or the Sudan-Ethiopian borderlands. Bows and arrows are still active in Papua New Guinea, although the regular machette or bush knife has the chief role as tool and weapon, but guns are creeping into the Highlands. Puukas still enjoy field use in Finland. My personal knowledge base is limited, but there are wide array of active weapons-ethnic groups observed in several recent posts.

Perhaps members could submit ethnic groups, their geographical range and photographs of the weapons still in common use along with commentary. This info would then be managed and placed on a map by someone with those graphics and database skills.

What do we think?

Regards,
Ed

Salaams Ed, This is an interesting idea.I wonder how detailed it needs to be. I can get down to regional info but separate tribal groupings are blurred in reference to artefacts. We would be talking about Northern Oman, Central Oman, Southern Oman rather than specific tribes... with perhaps some research on the Bedouin periphery... Al Murrah, Rashid, and so on. Its worth doing as an ongoing project to start with. Certainly would be great to have a press button map indicator so people can see where its all from. As a matter of course I think it would be a good idea to open each discussion with a map of the region (where possible and where practical) so that Forum have a good idea on the ground plan..I think this is a good idea in the case of the bigger discussions..It may also be an idea to add in retrospect at the front of a discussion so to enhance its quality.
Maps are done very effectively by Dom and others on the Flyssa situation. I suppose to that end I can include an ethnographic map of Oman..just as an example.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

DaveA · 15th June 2012, 11:44 PM

I strongly endorse this idea. At the very least, including relevant maps in threads when available. An interactive map could be made using Google maps or Google Earth. I have thought of starting such a project for my own research, but the idea of making it a community effort and open to contributions is very appealing. I'm not skilled enough (yet) to say how such a thing could be done, but I will investigate when i have time and advise the forum if there is interest.

Edster · 16th June 2012, 06:02 PM

Ibrahiim and Dave,

Thanks for your enthusiastic support of the idea. However, I'm a little disappointed that it didn't get more early traction. I'm sure there other visual/spacial thinkers out there. Never mind. Not to worry. We can just get out our atlas, colored pencils and note cards, and begin to create data in a manual format. Once we get a substantial collection we can enter the data into an electronic format.

The more I think of it there should be two layers. One for "in current use"(mainly in the fringes of post-colonial states) and indeed a much larger one that includes "historical use" of items that are largely cultural relics that are of central interest to the Forum including we three.

Geopolitical theory and the Westphalian notion that all areas of the globe should be within the boundaries and subject to the sovereignty of a nation state can help show us where ethnographic weapons are still in use. World maps and national boundaries were drawn on this basis largely during the 18th/19th centuries mostly by Europeans. Fringe areas (and their ethnic groups) of many nations have not always / never been really under the control of the associated central government. Northern Mali, much of central Africa, parts of the Philipines, Afghanistan, the Afar region of Eritrea / Ethiopia, just to name a few, cling to traditional values and weapons and have managed to stay out of the "mainstream". Issues were / are addressed inter-ethnically without the intervention of a national army.

Anyway, lets get started, work at a pace that suits us and check back from time to time via the forum or PM.

Best regards,
Ed

ariel · 16th June 2012, 06:35 PM

All Third World countries are quite uniform in their choice of ethnic weapon: AK-47
Kinda simplifies your mapping task, doesn't it? :-)

Edster · 16th June 2012, 11:31 PM

Astute if somewhat post-modern observation. Well played. :-)

VANDOO · 17th June 2012, 12:49 AM

THERE ARE VERY FEW PLACES IN OUR WORLD TODAY WHERE THE OLD FORMS OF ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS ARE STILL USED AS ORIGINALLY INTENDED. IN TODAYS WORLD WHERE THEY ARE USED IS FOR CEREMONIES, SPECIAL FESTIVALS, PARADES, REINACTMENTS AND AT TIMONIUM.

JUST KIDDING ABOUT TIMONIUM.

AN INDEX OF MAPS OF THE OLD DAYS AND OF THE TRIBAL TERRITORIES AND THE OLD FORMS OF WEAPONS WOULD INDEED BE A VALUABLE REFRENCE. I REMEMBER SEEING SEVERAL MAPS OF BORNEO AND THE PHILIPPINES WITH SUCH INFORMATION IN SOME OLD POSTS SO THERE IS A STARTING POINT ALREADY PRESENT IN THE FORUM. GATHERING IT TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE WOULD MAKE IT MUCH EASIER TO ACCESS FOR A REFRENCE. GOOD IDEA GO FOR IT!

Lee · 17th June 2012, 06:37 PM

Well, there has always been an intention to build such maps for the static site and I would welcome the help if people want to do the research to achieve this.

spiral · 17th June 2012, 11:43 PM

O well maps to large for the forum software... Ill do it another day or another way....

spiral

Rick · 18th June 2012, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

O well maps to large for the forum software... Ill do it another day or another way....

spiral

Suggest you contact Lee .

Edster · 18th June 2012, 11:38 PM

Lee,

Now that we have your support I'm sure we will be successful.

I have a vision of what we might produce. Of course, there will be others, but this may be a place to start. Also, you may even had a design in mind.

There are essentially three primary variables: places, weapons and ethnic groups. All three could be arranged and accessed in a pick list index or by manual search entry. Names swords/knives (maybe with a thumbnail) like takouba, flyssa, shamshir or kukri (up to 40-50? different names, maybe) plus more generic items like clubs, spears, shields. Ethnic groups like Moro, Hadendawa, Rashaida, Baggara and Afar. Regions like Indonesia, Balkans, Sudan, Ottoman Empire, Hausa States with their sub-regions.

I can see using Google Earth tied to a GIS program to "fly" to a region (say Indonesia) and at a certain "altitude" all the different types of catalogued weapons would appear in icon and along with ethnic group's territory within sub-regions. Closer zoom or pointing to a particular icon would enter the database content.

Content could include 1) identifying photo (s) entire weapon and distinguishing characteristics, 2) range of variations 3) Historic / period photos of ethnic groups so armed, historical maps of various ethnic groups homeland and territory 4.) descriptive text of primary weapon and support items like helmet and shields, 5) "Free use" relevant articles, other text or content, 6.)Text and photos of contemporary uses if any.

Content of any one weapon or area could be contributed by multiple authors. You as the editor would screen and select the most appropriate submissions.

This could be a fun project.
Regards,
Ed

KuKulzA28 · 19th June 2012, 05:27 AM

This is an interesting project, and I myself once made (in photoshop) a big map of the Philippines with pictures of local blades on various islands. This was to help my own mind organize all the different types of blade variations.

I find this sort of mapping / graphical organization very fun and useful.

Emanuel · 21st June 2012, 12:19 AM

Hello,

Cool idea, I had similar thoughts some time ago when I was making maps of Janissary recruitment in Ottoman Algiers. I'm an urban planner by trade and have adequate skill in GIS mapping so I'd be happy to contribute that to this project if it gets traction.

The easiest thing in terms of presentation would be to build a GIS database along the lines outlined by Ed, map the various features and export to separate Google Earth kmz files. These would be posted on the Forum and users would just download and open in Google Earth. This would save us the need to build an interface webpage.

This would essentially be an "EAAF Atlas of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor: in All Places and Times"

Emanuel

15th June 2012, 05:09 PM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 391	Ethno Weapons World Map Open idea to the Forum: What do you all think about developing an interactive world map that shows where and what ethnographic weapons are still in common use today? It would exclude cultural relics or museum pieces but only include weapons that continue today to play a active cultural role in the parent society as the jambiya (dress use) and dancing swords in Oman or the kaskara in Sudan as a wedding symbol and no doubt as an active weapon in parts of the Butana or the Sudan-Ethiopian borderlands. Bows and arrows are still active in Papua New Guinea, although the regular machette or bush knife has the chief role as tool and weapon, but guns are creeping into the Highlands. Puukas still enjoy field use in Finland. My personal knowledge base is limited, but there are wide array of active weapons-ethnic groups observed in several recent posts. Perhaps members could submit ethnic groups, their geographical range and photographs of the weapons still in common use along with commentary. This info would then be managed and placed on a map by someone with those graphics and database skills. What do we think? Regards, Ed

15th June 2012, 11:44 PM	#3
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Maps I strongly endorse this idea. At the very least, including relevant maps in threads when available. An interactive map could be made using Google maps or Google Earth. I have thought of starting such a project for my own research, but the idea of making it a community effort and open to contributions is very appealing. I'm not skilled enough (yet) to say how such a thing could be done, but I will investigate when i have time and advise the forum if there is interest.

16th June 2012, 06:02 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 391	Ibrahiim and Dave, Thanks for your enthusiastic support of the idea. However, I'm a little disappointed that it didn't get more early traction. I'm sure there other visual/spacial thinkers out there. Never mind. Not to worry. We can just get out our atlas, colored pencils and note cards, and begin to create data in a manual format. Once we get a substantial collection we can enter the data into an electronic format. The more I think of it there should be two layers. One for "in current use"(mainly in the fringes of post-colonial states) and indeed a much larger one that includes "historical use" of items that are largely cultural relics that are of central interest to the Forum including we three. Geopolitical theory and the Westphalian notion that all areas of the globe should be within the boundaries and subject to the sovereignty of a nation state can help show us where ethnographic weapons are still in use. World maps and national boundaries were drawn on this basis largely during the 18th/19th centuries mostly by Europeans. Fringe areas (and their ethnic groups) of many nations have not always / never been really under the control of the associated central government. Northern Mali, much of central Africa, parts of the Philipines, Afghanistan, the Afar region of Eritrea / Ethiopia, just to name a few, cling to traditional values and weapons and have managed to stay out of the "mainstream". Issues were / are addressed inter-ethnically without the intervention of a national army. Anyway, lets get started, work at a pace that suits us and check back from time to time via the forum or PM. Best regards, Ed

16th June 2012, 06:35 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	All Third World countries are quite uniform in their choice of ethnic weapon: AK-47 Kinda simplifies your mapping task, doesn't it? :-)

16th June 2012, 11:31 PM	#6
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 391	Astute if somewhat post-modern observation. Well played. :-)

17th June 2012, 12:49 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE ARE VERY FEW PLACES IN OUR WORLD TODAY WHERE THE OLD FORMS OF ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS ARE STILL USED AS ORIGINALLY INTENDED. IN TODAYS WORLD WHERE THEY ARE USED IS FOR CEREMONIES, SPECIAL FESTIVALS, PARADES, REINACTMENTS AND AT TIMONIUM. JUST KIDDING ABOUT TIMONIUM. AN INDEX OF MAPS OF THE OLD DAYS AND OF THE TRIBAL TERRITORIES AND THE OLD FORMS OF WEAPONS WOULD INDEED BE A VALUABLE REFRENCE. I REMEMBER SEEING SEVERAL MAPS OF BORNEO AND THE PHILIPPINES WITH SUCH INFORMATION IN SOME OLD POSTS SO THERE IS A STARTING POINT ALREADY PRESENT IN THE FORUM. GATHERING IT TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE WOULD MAKE IT MUCH EASIER TO ACCESS FOR A REFRENCE. GOOD IDEA GO FOR IT!

17th June 2012, 06:37 PM	#8
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	Well, there has always been an intention to build such maps for the static site and I would welcome the help if people want to do the research to achieve this.

17th June 2012, 11:43 PM	#9
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	O well maps to large for the forum software... Ill do it another day or another way.... spiral

18th June 2012, 11:38 PM	#11
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 391	Lee, Now that we have your support I'm sure we will be successful. I have a vision of what we might produce. Of course, there will be others, but this may be a place to start. Also, you may even had a design in mind. There are essentially three primary variables: places, weapons and ethnic groups. All three could be arranged and accessed in a pick list index or by manual search entry. Names swords/knives (maybe with a thumbnail) like takouba, flyssa, shamshir or kukri (up to 40-50? different names, maybe) plus more generic items like clubs, spears, shields. Ethnic groups like Moro, Hadendawa, Rashaida, Baggara and Afar. Regions like Indonesia, Balkans, Sudan, Ottoman Empire, Hausa States with their sub-regions. I can see using Google Earth tied to a GIS program to "fly" to a region (say Indonesia) and at a certain "altitude" all the different types of catalogued weapons would appear in icon and along with ethnic group's territory within sub-regions. Closer zoom or pointing to a particular icon would enter the database content. Content could include 1) identifying photo (s) entire weapon and distinguishing characteristics, 2) range of variations 3) Historic / period photos of ethnic groups so armed, historical maps of various ethnic groups homeland and territory 4.) descriptive text of primary weapon and support items like helmet and shields, 5) "Free use" relevant articles, other text or content, 6.)Text and photos of contemporary uses if any. Content of any one weapon or area could be contributed by multiple authors. You as the editor would screen and select the most appropriate submissions. This could be a fun project. Regards, Ed

19th June 2012, 05:27 AM	#12
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	This is an interesting project, and I myself once made (in photoshop) a big map of the Philippines with pictures of local blades on various islands. This was to help my own mind organize all the different types of blade variations. I find this sort of mapping / graphical organization very fun and useful.

21st June 2012, 12:19 AM	#13
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, Cool idea, I had similar thoughts some time ago when I was making maps of Janissary recruitment in Ottoman Algiers. I'm an urban planner by trade and have adequate skill in GIS mapping so I'd be happy to contribute that to this project if it gets traction. The easiest thing in terms of presentation would be to build a GIS database along the lines outlined by Ed, map the various features and export to separate Google Earth kmz files. These would be posted on the Forum and users would just download and open in Google Earth. This would save us the need to build an interface webpage. This would essentially be an "EAAF Atlas of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor: in All Places and Times" Emanuel