Ottoman Tufuk Carbine

rickystl · 7th May 2016, 09:29 PM

Hello all.
Here is a new aquistion. This is a rather plain example, with minimum decoration. In fact, it's a bit difficult to see the brass decoration. The patina is so dark it almost blends with the stock stain. There is a makers mark on the lock and barrel. And there is a stress crack on the bottom of the butt stock. The lock is in working order, but needs cleaned and adjustment. The barrel has light engraving with a cannon style muzzle and measures right at .60 caliber. And there's some light engraving on the barrel. In fact, the barrel looks some-what Persian. But probably not. Anyway, this gun will clean up and restore nicely, with minimum fuss. Here's some pics. Thanks for looking.
Rick

rickystl · 7th May 2016, 09:31 PM

SOME MORE PICS...............

rickystl · 7th May 2016, 09:33 PM

STILL MORE..........

Kubur · 8th May 2016, 03:37 PM

Hi Rick,

Beautiful and nothing is missing!
I see what you mean with the "Persian" stamp on the barrel, the Ottomans did that too. I suspect your barrel to be old...Is it possible to have an 18th c. barrel? Its a simple tufek but very complete. Can you use an oil or a wax to show the difference of wood used for the butt? Which kind of wood is it?

Best,
Kubur

Kubur · 8th May 2016, 03:40 PM

On the lock, normaly the stamp is in the middle of the circle.
Is it possible that the guy was drunk and missed the circle to stamp the edge of the barrel?

estcrh · 9th May 2016, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Rick,

Beautiful and nothing is missing!

Kuber, it looks to me that the butt may have been replaced at one time and may not be original, what do you think?

kahnjar1 · 10th May 2016, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Kuber, it looks to me that the butt may have been replaced at one time and may not be original, what do you think?

The two woods do look different

Kubur · 10th May 2016, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Kuber, it looks to me that the butt may have been replaced at one time and may not be original, what do you think?

yes the woods are different and they are original. Please, have a look at other Ottoman rifles or tufek you will see always a decoration at 1/2 or 1/3 or the butt. The decoration marks a change in the butt stock. Very often the wood was different, sometimes on the caucasian guns it was a piece of walrus ivory, on the boliya, the butt end is covered with a red textile. On the Arab matchlocks it was another extra piece of wood added around the butt. I don't know the technical reason, I'm sure that Rick will explain that better than me.
Kubur

estcrh · 10th May 2016, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

yes the woods are different and they are original. Please, have a look at other Ottoman rifles or tufek you will see always a decoration at 1/2 or 1/3 or the butt. The decoration marks a change in the butt stock. Very often the wood was different,

Yes you do see this type with an all wood stock, it just seemed like the butt on this example may not be quite right but with only a photo it is hard to tell, Rick could answer that better as he can see if the butt seems to match the rest of the stock as far as the wear and finish.

rickystl · 11th May 2016, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Rick,

Beautiful and nothing is missing!
I see what you mean with the "Persian" stamp on the barrel, the Ottomans did that too. I suspect your barrel to be old...Is it possible to have an 18th c. barrel? Its a simple tufek but very complete. Can you use an oil or a wax to show the difference of wood used for the butt? Which kind of wood is it?

Best,
Kubur

Hi Kubur.
Yes the gun is mostly complete. Even the original ramrod, which the patina matches the barrel exactly. Yes, the barrel really does look old. It would not surprise me if the barrel was 18th Century, and re-stocked sometime in the first half of the 19th Century. I'll let you know about the wood. The whole gun needs a good (correct) cleaning. I can do this while the lock is being cleaned and adjusted. Again, the barrel does look really old. I checked, and it's not loaded. LOL
Rick

rickystl · 11th May 2016, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

On the lock, normaly the stamp is in the middle of the circle.
Is it possible that the guy was drunk and missed the circle to stamp the edge of the barrel?

LOL!! Yes it does seem to be a bit unusual location for a maker's stamp. It's deep too.
Rick

Pukka Bundook · 11th May 2016, 01:39 AM

Grand looking gun, Rick!!

Hard to date these barrels, as they were used over and over.

Not loaded............that is good. :-)

Just got a matchlock from the UK.
Had a firework, some sand and a 6" oval nail down the barrel!

rickystl · 11th May 2016, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Yes you do see this type with an all wood stock, it just seemed like the butt on this example may not be quite right but with only a photo it is hard to tell, Rick could answer that better as he can see if the butt seems to match the rest of the stock as far as the wear and finish.

Hi Estcrh. How have you been?
FRONT AND REAR WOOD OF THE BUTT STOCK: The wood on the rear of the butt stock is definately different than the wood on the grip area and forearm. but as Kubur mentios, this is quite common. It's a bit hard to tell in the photos because the gun really needs cleaned. But in this case, I believe the butt section was original to the gun. One reason I believe this is that the sharp edges of both pieces are rounded/worn equally. And the brass nails on the brass strap all match with the same patina. What is intersting is the butt cap section being held in by two wood dowels rather than long nails like you usually see. But I've seen many of these with both the same, and different woods used. If it was changed, it was certainly done back in the period sometime. But again, a good cleaning will tell me more.
Rick.

rickystl · 11th May 2016, 02:28 AM

Actually, it's also missing one of the small brass decorations on the left side, and there are 3-4 small worm lines. But the brass will be easy to replace.
It is nice getting the original ramrod, which rarely shows up on these guns.
Rick

estcrh · 11th May 2016, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

What is intersting is the butt cap section being held in by two wood dowels rather than long nails like you usually see.

Hey Rick, I have seen some with butts that were added separately like yours, since most have the butt end covered up or you do not get to see images of it I could not figure out how it was attached but maybe the use of wood dowels was common but just how seen, with either a plate or decorations covering it up.

It looks like the butt end was not cut evenly, is that just from the angle?

rickystl · 12th May 2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Grand looking gun, Rick!!

Hard to date these barrels, as they were used over and over.

Not loaded............that is good. :-)

Just got a matchlock from the UK.
Had a firework, some sand and a 6" oval nail down the barrel!

LOL!!!

rickystl · 12th May 2016, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Hey Rick, I have seen some with butts that were added separately like yours, since most have the butt end covered up or you do not get to see images of it I could not figure out how it was attached but maybe the use of wood dowels was common but just how seen, with either a plate or decorations covering it up.

It looks like the butt end was not cut evenly, is that just from the angle?

Hi Estcrh.
No, it's just the angle of the photo. There appears a small, old repair on the edge. I'll take another photo so you can see. (as soon as my camera battery is recharged

Rick

7th May 2016, 09:29 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Ottoman Tufuk Carbine Hello all. Here is a new aquistion. This is a rather plain example, with minimum decoration. In fact, it's a bit difficult to see the brass decoration. The patina is so dark it almost blends with the stock stain. There is a makers mark on the lock and barrel. And there is a stress crack on the bottom of the butt stock. The lock is in working order, but needs cleaned and adjustment. The barrel has light engraving with a cannon style muzzle and measures right at .60 caliber. And there's some light engraving on the barrel. In fact, the barrel looks some-what Persian. But probably not. Anyway, this gun will clean up and restore nicely, with minimum fuss. Here's some pics. Thanks for looking. Rick Attached Images

7th May 2016, 09:31 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	SOME MORE PICS............... Attached Images

7th May 2016, 09:33 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	STILL MORE.......... Attached Images

11th May 2016, 02:28 AM	#14
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Actually, it's also missing one of the small brass decorations on the left side, and there are 3-4 small worm lines. But the brass will be easy to replace. It is nice getting the original ramrod, which rarely shows up on these guns. Rick Attached Images

8th May 2016, 03:37 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Rick, Beautiful and nothing is missing! I see what you mean with the "Persian" stamp on the barrel, the Ottomans did that too. I suspect your barrel to be old...Is it possible to have an 18th c. barrel? Its a simple tufek but very complete. Can you use an oil or a wax to show the difference of wood used for the butt? Which kind of wood is it? Best, Kubur

8th May 2016, 03:40 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	On the lock, normaly the stamp is in the middle of the circle. Is it possible that the guy was drunk and missed the circle to stamp the edge of the barrel?

11th May 2016, 01:39 AM	#12
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Grand looking gun, Rick!! Hard to date these barrels, as they were used over and over. Not loaded............that is good. :-) Just got a matchlock from the UK. Had a firework, some sand and a 6" oval nail down the barrel!