Earliest Documented Existence of Use of Sans Serif Font on Sheffield Maker's Stamps

laEspadaAncha · 27th February 2012, 10:37 PM

Following a suggestion by Spiral - and IMO a wonderful suggestion of that - I would like to dedicate a thread to exploring the earliest use of sans serif fonts by English cutlers...

Unfortunately, edged weapon collecting is not impervious to the banalities of human nature. We tend to become entrenched in complacency with our acceptance of the status quo and complacent in our desire to challenge it. As a result, myths abound in this field, and myths and mistakes alike, when repeated enough, unfortunately become accepted as "fact."

One such example that comes to mind is with regards to the erroneous labeling of the Collins No. 18 machete as a "V-44 fighting knife." Just google "V-44 fighting knife," and you'll receive a ton of these in return:

In fact, go to any gun or knife show, and if you ask for a "V-44 fighting knife," this is what they will sell you. Because we collectors all know that is what it is, right?

Wrong. The V-44 was a round-tip, blunt-nose machete that was included in flight kits. The V-44 was not a clip-point Bowie profile machete issued to and carried by Marines in the Pacific Theater in WWII; that was the No. 18 machete made originally by Collins.

But that hasn't stopped author after author, dealer after dealer, and collector after collector repeating this ad infinitum until it became accepted as "fact."

It is my opinion a similar issue exists with the perception that if a knife is stamped in a sans serif font, it must date to the late 19th century. It is my opinion this is equally wrong. There are plenty of documented examples that provide evidence that cutlers were using sans serif typefaces in their stamps during the mid-19th century.

By establishing an accurate date for the first appearance and use of such stamps, it will help us better assess, understand, and appreciate the knives we collectors both have and will doubtlessly encounter in our quest to add examples to our respective collections. Nor is the benefit of such an effort limited to edged weapons. In the thread in which this discussion was initiated (see here), the authenticity of what appears to be a beautiful late-18th or early 19th century blunderbuss was called into question in no small part due to the use of a sans-serif font.

In the following posts, I hope to show that a) the commercial use of such a font in England dates not to the late 1800's but rather to the early 1800's, and b) there are plenty of examples establishing the use of sans serif stamps by English cutlers by the mid-19th century.

spiral · 27th February 2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Following a suggestion by Spiral - and IMO a wonderful suggestion of that - I would like to dedicate a thread yo exploring the earliest use of sans serif fonts by English cutlers...

I'll be back to polish this post, but in the meantime, here's a link to the thread that initiated this discussion

:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...5&page=1&pp=30

Excelent Chris! I hope between us we can learn the bottom line.

Spiral

laEspadaAncha · 28th February 2012, 01:46 AM

Okay... as an antecedent to the discussion, we must first establish a timeline for the appearance and the use of the sans-serif font. Once again, sans serif fonts are those which lack the little extensions, or "serifs," otherwise present at the end of the strokes of (Latin) letters.

Fortunately, there is a nice and tidy compilation of historical documentation from which such an establishment is nothing other than a formality.

Here we see a partial print from a document entitled "Design for a British Senate House" which was exhibited at the Royal Academy in London in 1779:

According to typologist James Mosely, the origin of the sans-serif font dates to the Classical Revival period that began in the 18th century, and he cites its first known appearance in England as early as 1748, in Stourhead (see here).

From his same typographic journal, he states the font was appearing in print media by 1805, in European Magazine, a London-based publication.

As per Mosely, the Ordnance Survey, the government institution charged with domestic cartographic functions, began using copperplate engravings with sans-serif letters in 1816, establishing the adaptation of a sans-serif font by the government of the United Kingdom well within the first quarter of the 19th century.

1816 also saw the first production of a sans-serif printing type, by William Carlson IV, which he produced in his own foundry (see here).

However, he referred to his font by a different name, and another fourteen years would elapse before another founder (Figgins) first used the term "Sans Serif" to describe the font which had already been in use commercially for well over a decade.

Therefore, it is established the sans serif font not only existed, but was in use in England as early as the mid-18th century, and by 1816, founders were commercially producing a sans-serif typeface. Any claim that the font didn't come into use until after 1870 is historically inaccurate and demonstrably false.

It is thus entirely reasonable to consider that this typeface was used by English cutlers long before 1870.

In my next post, I will post several examples of knives dating to the mid-19th century that clearly show the use of a sans-serif font in the stamps present on their blades.

M ELEY · 28th February 2012, 04:55 AM

Sorry, coming in a little late on this one, but when you say 'sans serif' font, are you referring to block-type lettering on weapons vs cursive style? If so, there are multitudes of examples from the late-18th with said font. If I am mis-interpreting the question, please ignore my comments.

Specifically, early (ca 1805) swords with block letter "GR", the markings of Wooley swords, Dawes swords circa 1790-1800 period.

laEspadaAncha · 28th February 2012, 05:12 AM

Hi Mark,

Sans serif doesn't just refer to block-type lettering (as opposed to cursive), but more specifically, to block-type lettering that is absent the little 'feet' you find at the end of each stroke on each character (called 'serifs').

In the image below, the word "ALPHA" appears in a serif font in the image below, while both the trademark on the left (with the heart & pistol) and the caption underneath are written in sans serif fonts:

With that in mind, what is the earliest example you have seen of an English knife that is stamped with a sans serif font?

Regards,

Chris

spiral · 28th February 2012, 09:26 AM

Excelent post Chris!

I obviously agree sans serif existed in print much earlier,probably any English libary will have reference books that include some sans serif before c.1870

My point is so far theres no reliable dated evidence of the use of sans serif on bladed weapons before that date. The examples you post in the other thread are highly dubius to say the least.

Mark serifs are the small curls or flats added to the tops & bottoms of some font.

Spiral

The examples listed by Chris. for further study. {Some hotlinked as originaly posted in the blunderbuss thread.}

Strangly {img} tags dont work on the ones actualy posted on viking sword, how does one link to those I wonder?

27th February 2012, 10:37 PM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Earliest Documented Existence of Use of Sans Serif Font on Sheffield Maker's Stamps Following a suggestion by Spiral - and IMO a wonderful suggestion of that - I would like to dedicate a thread to exploring the earliest use of sans serif fonts by English cutlers... Unfortunately, edged weapon collecting is not impervious to the banalities of human nature. We tend to become entrenched in complacency with our acceptance of the status quo and complacent in our desire to challenge it. As a result, myths abound in this field, and myths and mistakes alike, when repeated enough, unfortunately become accepted as "fact." One such example that comes to mind is with regards to the erroneous labeling of the Collins No. 18 machete as a "V-44 fighting knife." Just google "V-44 fighting knife," and you'll receive a ton of these in return: In fact, go to any gun or knife show, and if you ask for a "V-44 fighting knife," this is what they will sell you. Because we collectors all know that is what it is, right? Wrong. The V-44 was a round-tip, blunt-nose machete that was included in flight kits. The V-44 was not a clip-point Bowie profile machete issued to and carried by Marines in the Pacific Theater in WWII; that was the No. 18 machete made originally by Collins. But that hasn't stopped author after author, dealer after dealer, and collector after collector repeating this ad infinitum until it became accepted as "fact." It is my opinion a similar issue exists with the perception that if a knife is stamped in a sans serif font, it must date to the late 19th century. It is my opinion this is equally wrong. There are plenty of documented examples that provide evidence that cutlers were using sans serif typefaces in their stamps during the mid-19th century. By establishing an accurate date for the first appearance and use of such stamps, it will help us better assess, understand, and appreciate the knives we collectors both have and will doubtlessly encounter in our quest to add examples to our respective collections. Nor is the benefit of such an effort limited to edged weapons. In the thread in which this discussion was initiated (see here), the authenticity of what appears to be a beautiful late-18th or early 19th century blunderbuss was called into question in no small part due to the use of a sans-serif font. In the following posts, I hope to show that a) the commercial use of such a font in England dates not to the late 1800's but rather to the early 1800's, and b) there are plenty of examples establishing the use of sans serif stamps by English cutlers by the mid-19th century. Last edited by laEspadaAncha; 28th February 2012 at 03:15 AM. Reason: To write a proper introductory post to the topic

28th February 2012, 01:46 AM	#3
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Okay... as an antecedent to the discussion, we must first establish a timeline for the appearance and the use of the sans-serif font. Once again, sans serif fonts are those which lack the little extensions, or "serifs," otherwise present at the end of the strokes of (Latin) letters. Fortunately, there is a nice and tidy compilation of historical documentation from which such an establishment is nothing other than a formality. Here we see a partial print from a document entitled "Design for a British Senate House" which was exhibited at the Royal Academy in London in 1779: According to typologist James Mosely, the origin of the sans-serif font dates to the Classical Revival period that began in the 18th century, and he cites its first known appearance in England as early as 1748, in Stourhead (see here). From his same typographic journal, he states the font was appearing in print media by 1805, in European Magazine, a London-based publication. As per Mosely, the Ordnance Survey, the government institution charged with domestic cartographic functions, began using copperplate engravings with sans-serif letters in 1816, establishing the adaptation of a sans-serif font by the government of the United Kingdom well within the first quarter of the 19th century. 1816 also saw the first production of a sans-serif printing type, by William Carlson IV, which he produced in his own foundry (see here). However, he referred to his font by a different name, and another fourteen years would elapse before another founder (Figgins) first used the term "Sans Serif" to describe the font which had already been in use commercially for well over a decade. Therefore, it is established the sans serif font not only existed, but was in use in England as early as the mid-18th century, and by 1816, founders were commercially producing a sans-serif typeface. Any claim that the font didn't come into use until after 1870 is historically inaccurate and demonstrably false. It is thus entirely reasonable to consider that this typeface was used by English cutlers long before 1870. In my next post, I will post several examples of knives dating to the mid-19th century that clearly show the use of a sans-serif font in the stamps present on their blades. Last edited by laEspadaAncha; 28th February 2012 at 04:08 AM.

28th February 2012, 04:55 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Sorry, coming in a little late on this one, but when you say 'sans serif' font, are you referring to block-type lettering on weapons vs cursive style? If so, there are multitudes of examples from the late-18th with said font. If I am mis-interpreting the question, please ignore my comments. Specifically, early (ca 1805) swords with block letter "GR", the markings of Wooley swords, Dawes swords circa 1790-1800 period.

28th February 2012, 05:12 AM	#5
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Mark, Sans serif doesn't just refer to block-type lettering (as opposed to cursive), but more specifically, to block-type lettering that is absent the little 'feet' you find at the end of each stroke on each character (called 'serifs'). In the image below, the word "ALPHA" appears in a serif font in the image below, while both the trademark on the left (with the heart & pistol) and the caption underneath are written in sans serif fonts: With that in mind, what is the earliest example you have seen of an English knife that is stamped with a sans serif font? Regards, Chris

28th February 2012, 09:26 AM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Excelent post Chris! I obviously agree sans serif existed in print much earlier,probably any English libary will have reference books that include some sans serif before c.1870 My point is so far theres no reliable dated evidence of the use of sans serif on bladed weapons before that date. The examples you post in the other thread are highly dubius to say the least. Mark serifs are the small curls or flats added to the tops & bottoms of some font. Spiral The examples listed by Chris. for further study. {Some hotlinked as originaly posted in the blunderbuss thread.} Strangly {img} tags dont work on the ones actualy posted on viking sword, how does one link to those I wonder?