Help with newly posted Keris

John · 3rd September 2006, 02:44 AM

Thanks to all for the encouraging/kind comments. Indeed it's gratifying to see a job well done.

Shahrial, I believe yours would be ready in no time. Do please post some pictures. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath...

Kai Wee, let it be known many of your outstanding pieces have been my benchmarks. Another project with Nik will come and the fittings will base on a picture you once sent upon my request.

Nik Dee opined the blade as Riau Bugis and helped made the selection of sampir and hulu after discussions. The choice of pendokok and butut (after seeing how good it looks on a Kai Wee piece) were mine.

BluErf · 3rd September 2006, 05:31 AM

Hey John, we are helping to dress 'orphaned' Bugis and Malay keris blades beautifully for the next generation to appreciate. (I hope they do!!)

VVV · 10th September 2006, 09:54 AM

Hi all,

Just posted a Keris I found in Copenhagen last week at

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

I like the 3D pamor and it's interesting because it has a Ganja Iras with a drawn line.
Also I would appreciate all feedback on the descriptions, especially what kind of material the hilt is made of?

Michael

Alam Shah · 10th September 2006, 11:55 AM

Hi Michael,

A pretty Palembang piece. I do love ganja iras blades. Sorry I could not contribute. Most of the features about your keris, you already know.

As for the hilt, perhaps someone would know better.

About ganja iras, does anyone knows why it is made this way?
I'm sure there is a purpose. One of my ganja iras blade.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

VVV · 10th September 2006, 03:13 PM

Thanks Shahrial,

I unfortunately don't know the answer to your Ganja Iras question.
Nice blade you've got by the way.
Is the Ganja separate or is it a drawn line like mine?

I found some time today to also post another of my Bugis Keris at

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

This is a heavy fighter, still sharp edges, with an interesting Dapur.

Michael

Alam Shah · 10th September 2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

... Nice blade you've got by the way. Is the Ganja separate or is it a drawn line like mine?

It's Ganja Iras, drawn like yours.

Btw, love your Luk 3, Bugis keris.

The type of blade that I like. However, personally, I don't like rattan binding to the lower side of the sheath.

Your Bugis pieces seems to have pamor Batu Lapak (or Tapak Gajah in Malay) at the base of the blade.

David · 10th September 2006, 03:56 PM

Really like this last one Michael....and your gonjo iras blade as well (yours too Shahrial

). I will make the suggestion that if we keep adding new, yet unrelated keris to this thread we will move on to the next blade before we discuss the early questions at hand. Please feel free Michael to start new threads for new and unrelated acquisitions. I think it might give the discussion greater focus.

Back to the gonjo iras question and that keris. I have tried to asked the question of why make an gonjo iras blade before and the only answers i have received that seemed sustainable was that it was a cost cutting measure. This may be the case, but frankly it is an answer which has left me still questioning. I doubt that yours was made that way to protect the owner from the metaphysical powers of his own keris as you suggest on the website, but it does seem to me that there would be some other reason besides cost cutting.
As for your pamor descriptions, i have never heard pamor wengkon described that way. My understanding is that it is a protective pamor and will often be found on the keris of those who officiate over a group of people whose protection and care is in his hands. Of course, these pamor meanings can get pretty subjective at time and can mean different things to different people. I agree with you that the pamor is typical of Bugis blades, but i would say the dapur of this keris is far more Javanese influenced.
I am not all that good at recognizing ivories, but is there some reason this couldn't just be elephant ivory that has cracked with age. Why do you think it is molar material or possibly Hippo?

VVV · 10th September 2006, 05:28 PM

Thanks Shahrial and David for your comments,

Shahrial, you are correct about the Batu Lapak.
I will change it in the description.
Maybe it was to early in the morning when I checked the Pamor

David, cost cutting sounds like a probable reason. But several of the ganja iras blades I have seen doesn't look over all as if the owner was out of funds.
I guess that there may be some mystical, symbolic meaning meaning why to do it. Just as you also seem to do.
I hope we will find the answer from some of the other forumites?

On the Pamor, as well as Dapur, descriptions I usually use Tammens.
And sometimes Ensiklopedi Keris.

On the Javanese influence I have used a Javanese Dapur description.
But most of the Keris I have seen with this form has been Minangkabau Keris.

The reason why I suspect it's not "usual" elephant ivory is because it doesn't look like the material in any of my other ivory hilts. And when I checked in some of the reference works I found hilts of partly resembling material described as molar or hippopotamus.
Earlier this year I had one of the senior European collectors visiting me and he also told me that several of my Sumatran hilts that I thought was made from elephant ivory actually were made from other kind of ivory.

Michael

3rd September 2006, 02:44 AM	#1
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Thanks. Thanks to all for the encouraging/kind comments. Indeed it's gratifying to see a job well done. Shahrial, I believe yours would be ready in no time. Do please post some pictures. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath... Kai Wee, let it be known many of your outstanding pieces have been my benchmarks. Another project with Nik will come and the fittings will base on a picture you once sent upon my request. Nik Dee opined the blade as Riau Bugis and helped made the selection of sampir and hulu after discussions. The choice of pendokok and butut (after seeing how good it looks on a Kai Wee piece) were mine.

10th September 2006, 09:54 AM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi all, Just posted a Keris I found in Copenhagen last week at http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php I like the 3D pamor and it's interesting because it has a Ganja Iras with a drawn line. Also I would appreciate all feedback on the descriptions, especially what kind of material the hilt is made of? Michael Attached Images

10th September 2006, 03:13 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Shahrial, I unfortunately don't know the answer to your Ganja Iras question. Nice blade you've got by the way. Is the Ganja separate or is it a drawn line like mine? I found some time today to also post another of my Bugis Keris at http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php This is a heavy fighter, still sharp edges, with an interesting Dapur. Michael Attached Images

3rd September 2006, 05:31 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hey John, we are helping to dress 'orphaned' Bugis and Malay keris blades beautifully for the next generation to appreciate. (I hope they do!!)

10th September 2006, 11:55 AM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Michael, A pretty Palembang piece. I do love ganja iras blades. Sorry I could not contribute. Most of the features about your keris, you already know. As for the hilt, perhaps someone would know better. About ganja iras, does anyone knows why it is made this way? I'm sure there is a purpose. One of my ganja iras blade. http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

10th September 2006, 03:56 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,047	Really like this last one Michael....and your gonjo iras blade as well (yours too Shahrial ). I will make the suggestion that if we keep adding new, yet unrelated keris to this thread we will move on to the next blade before we discuss the early questions at hand. Please feel free Michael to start new threads for new and unrelated acquisitions. I think it might give the discussion greater focus. Back to the gonjo iras question and that keris. I have tried to asked the question of why make an gonjo iras blade before and the only answers i have received that seemed sustainable was that it was a cost cutting measure. This may be the case, but frankly it is an answer which has left me still questioning. I doubt that yours was made that way to protect the owner from the metaphysical powers of his own keris as you suggest on the website, but it does seem to me that there would be some other reason besides cost cutting. As for your pamor descriptions, i have never heard pamor wengkon described that way. My understanding is that it is a protective pamor and will often be found on the keris of those who officiate over a group of people whose protection and care is in his hands. Of course, these pamor meanings can get pretty subjective at time and can mean different things to different people. I agree with you that the pamor is typical of Bugis blades, but i would say the dapur of this keris is far more Javanese influenced. I am not all that good at recognizing ivories, but is there some reason this couldn't just be elephant ivory that has cracked with age. Why do you think it is molar material or possibly Hippo?

10th September 2006, 05:28 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Shahrial and David for your comments, Shahrial, you are correct about the Batu Lapak. I will change it in the description. Maybe it was to early in the morning when I checked the Pamor David, cost cutting sounds like a probable reason. But several of the ganja iras blades I have seen doesn't look over all as if the owner was out of funds. I guess that there may be some mystical, symbolic meaning meaning why to do it. Just as you also seem to do. I hope we will find the answer from some of the other forumites? On the Pamor, as well as Dapur, descriptions I usually use Tammens. And sometimes Ensiklopedi Keris. On the Javanese influence I have used a Javanese Dapur description. But most of the Keris I have seen with this form has been Minangkabau Keris. The reason why I suspect it's not "usual" elephant ivory is because it doesn't look like the material in any of my other ivory hilts. And when I checked in some of the reference works I found hilts of partly resembling material described as molar or hippopotamus. Earlier this year I had one of the senior European collectors visiting me and he also told me that several of my Sumatran hilts that I thought was made from elephant ivory actually were made from other kind of ivory. Michael