Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 6th March 2012, 07:16 AM   #1
henri
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Default Chieftain keris

Dear members ,

I would like to share with you my last catch !
Looks like a " chieftain keris " . The patina is fantastic and all parts seems to be original . Probably sumatran but the wilah is a bit confusing for me !
Any comments are more than welcome .
Henri
Attached Images
        
henri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2012, 12:37 PM   #2
Jentayu
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 61
Default

Nice catch. A beautiful keris indeed but I don't think its a chieftain. Looks more like a "keris selit" or small keris for customary use.
Jentayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2012, 03:33 PM   #3
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

I beautiful keris. This thread might be helpful.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hieftain+keris
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2012, 12:22 AM   #4
henri
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Default

Thank you Jentayu and David .
Anyway ! No worries if we can t refer to " Chieftain keris " . Still a nice piece for me .
Question is this keris Bugis , Southern Sumatran or more Malay ?
From where I got this one I can be 90% sure all parts are original but sheath is more Bugis influence and blade for me more Sumatran .
Thank you for your comments guys
Henri
henri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2012, 07:37 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jentayu
Nice catch. A beautiful keris indeed but I don't think its a chieftain. Looks more like a "keris selit" or small keris for customary use.
Would like to know how long is the blade and the keris complete!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2012, 08:51 AM   #6
henri
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Default

Sajen , the blade is exactly 260 mm and overall 345 mm
henri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2012, 12:48 PM   #7
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,416
Default

Thank you Henri, by this size it is possible that Jentayu is correct.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 09:41 AM   #8
Marcokeris
Member
 
Marcokeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
Default

Beautiful keris
Marcokeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2012, 06:27 AM   #9
henri
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Default

Thank you Marco .

So I will file this one as Keris selit / Malaysian origin .
henri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2012, 10:49 AM   #10
Raja Muda
Member
 
Raja Muda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 100
Default Blade Material

I'm interested in the blade material. I've seen it in a lot of Bugis pieces as the iron has a rather silvery colour rather than the greyish tinge or approaching black hue found on other blades manufactured elsewhere in the region.

Is this the result of the blade not being acid stained, or due to some high nickel content in the base material perhaps?

Can someone enlighten me
Raja Muda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2012, 12:59 PM   #11
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Muda
I'm interested in the blade material. I've seen it in a lot of Bugis pieces as the iron has a rather silvery colour rather than the greyish tinge or approaching black hue found on other blades manufactured elsewhere in the region.

Is this the result of the blade not being acid stained, or due to some high nickel content in the base material perhaps?

Can someone enlighten me
Hello,
This blade was just scrubbed for removing the rust and would look completely different after warangan, see examples of Bugis blades before and after treatment.
Regards
Attached Images
  
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2012, 04:44 AM   #12
henri
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Default

Bonjour Jean ( eh oui ! un peu francais moi ausi ! )
Did you mean this blade is made of alloy nickel iron and iron and
could show a pamor after waranga treatment ?
I haven t tried waranga thinking the peninsular origin of this blade
didn t allow this kind of alloy .
This one for me doesn t look like a bugis .

Henri
henri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2012, 09:15 AM   #13
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,416
Default

Yes, it is a pamor blade. A lot of collectors don't like to etch (warangan) Bugis and Malay blades.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2012, 03:28 PM   #14
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Yes, it is a pamor blade. A lot of collectors don't like to etch (warangan) Bugis and Malay blades.
Yes, this is definitely a pamor blade and i'd say this blade certainly shows Bugis influence. As for staining (warangan), i am still unclear as to whether leaving Bugis and Malay blades unstained is a matter of tradition or simply contemporary collector's tastes. I have seen nothing definitive on the actual tradition. I have seen them treated both ways. My personal inclination is to stain a blade that has a nice pattern to show. Malay blades are less likely to have a pamor, but some Bugis style blades like yours show beautiful pattern and it seems a shame not to allow them to present themselves clearly.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2012, 06:51 PM   #15
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Yes, this is definitely a pamor blade and i'd say this blade certainly shows Bugis influence. As for staining (warangan), i am still unclear as to whether leaving Bugis and Malay blades unstained is a matter of tradition or simply contemporary collector's tastes. I have seen nothing definitive on the actual tradition. I have seen them treated both ways. My personal inclination is to stain a blade that has a nice pattern to show. Malay blades are less likely to have a pamor, but some Bugis style blades like yours show beautiful pattern and it seems a shame not to allow them to present themselves clearly.
Agree complete with you David!!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2012, 08:46 PM   #16
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

I also fully agree with David.
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 12:05 AM   #17
henri
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Default

All right . Will etch and post some photos soon .
Thank you all for your inputs . I am still a bit confused for the origin : Bugis or Keris selit peninsular but I will do some homework to get a reply .
Henri
henri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 01:04 AM   #18
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by henri
All right . Will etch and post some photos soon .
Thank you all for your inputs . I am still a bit confused for the origin : Bugis or Keris selit peninsular but I will do some homework to get a reply .
Henri
Henri, the Bugis people were all over the archipelago. Say a keris has Bugis origin is therefore not a statement of origin. The Bugis are in Sulawesi, Sumatra and on the Peninsula.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.