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Old 17th July 2011, 10:57 AM   #1
Atlantia
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Default 18thC Ottoman Flintlock Holster pistol restoration project.

Acquired this once rather fine large holster pistol and thought you'd all like to see it in 'as found' condition.
Besides, I'm still scratching my head about where to start with the cleaning and restoration.
Looks Ottoman but who knows what marks might be under the rust (some elements could be European?).

Any comments, help, suggestions of where to begin greatfully received.

Best
Gene
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Old 17th July 2011, 02:09 PM   #2
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Hi Gene,

The good thing to start with is that is preserved in untouched and unspoilt condition.

If it were mine I would dismantle it and clean each part separately. For the iron surfaces I recommend 000 steel wool soaked with oilve oil, and gentle rubbing. Check every few seconds so that no irreversible damage will occur. For the brass parts I would use one of the many brass polishing lotions available everywhere and rub with a soft cloth. Still I would prefer not to let it get too shiny and look new.

Personally, I would not clean the wood, just polish it litghly with a hard cloth (linen, e.g.). This way, the charming surface of old would stil be preserved, without looking 'dirty' and seedy.

As to the replacement of the ramrod, most Ottoman pistols just had plain wooden ramrods slightly expandig to the fore-end.


Anyway, let us know (and see! ) the result!

Best,
Michael

Last edited by Matchlock : 17th July 2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 17th July 2011, 02:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Hi Gene,

The good thing to start with is that is preserved in untouched and unspoilt condition.

If it were mine I would dismantle it and clean each part separately. For the iron surfaces I recommend 000 steel wool soaked with oilve oil, and gentle rubbing. Check every few seconds so that no irreversible damage will occur. For the brass parts I would use one of the many brass polishing lotions available everywhere and rub with a soft cloth. Still I would prefer not to let it get too shiny and look new.

Personally, I would not clean the wood, just polish it litghly with a hard cloth (linen, e.g.). This way, the charming surface of old would stil be preserved, without looking 'dirty' and seedy.

Let us know the resullt!

Best,
Michael



Hi Michael,

Thanks you for coming into this so quickly. As you can see, this poor gun has some condition issues at the moment. Its parts are either loose or siezed, the bolt heads have worn and rounded slots, and of course there is a lot of rust and accumilated surface encrustation that may or may not hide serious damage.
I'm nervously keeping my fingers crossed on this one Michael, as I've wanted a big flintlock pistol for a very long time.
I just never get offered them at a good price!
This one was a bargain even with the condition issues, so I'm just hoping that it is salvagable to a reasonable standard.

I've cleaned the frizzen spring which had plenty of hard rust and rubbish caught in it, then opened the frizzen to clean the flash-pan.
The frizzen and spring are in good order under the dirt and rust. There is also a strange repeating geometric pattern between the frizen spring and cock. I won't test the mainspring if I can help it until I can remove the entire lock and check its condition from the inside.

There is just over 3 inches of the ramrod remaining

I'll post a picture in a little while of the outer cleaning of the lock.

Best
Gene
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Old 17th July 2011, 03:39 PM   #4
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Have fun then, Gene!

m
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Old 17th July 2011, 06:26 PM   #5
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Got a cracked mainspring unfortunately.

Here's the engraving on the lock plate:
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Last edited by Atlantia : 17th July 2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 18th July 2011, 02:10 AM   #6
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Hi Gene. I agree with Michael on the dismantling. Some of the lock screws might need some good penetrating oil. Let it sit for a few days, adding a little each day. Looks like all the major pieces are there. The broken mainspring: SAVE the broken one!! A new one can be made using the old one as a pattern. Same with any other broken internals. I'm working on these old guns myself all the time. It will be interesting to see if there are any barrel markings. The pistol looks ottoman, or made in the Balkans for the Turkish market. Good luck. And keep us posted on your progress. Rick.
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Old 18th July 2011, 11:24 AM   #7
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Hi Gene,

I've never seen that kind of signature.

Cracked mainsprings can often be electrically welded and will fairly hold action! Just clean the broken contact areas.

Best,
Michael
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Old 18th July 2011, 12:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
... I've never seen that kind of signature...

Isn't that, one of these meaningless (sort of) inscriptions ?
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Old 18th July 2011, 12:33 PM   #9
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That was my first impression, 'Nando, but it was up to the boss to utter.

Best,
Michl
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Old 18th July 2011, 02:02 PM   #10
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Para cualquier restauracíon en las partes de hierro o acero, la única manera de eliminar el óxido, es química. Aunque se trate de limpiar con tela de esmeril, la corrosión se mantiene en las depresiones, y la existencia de un óxido como cuerpo extraño en la superficie del metal forma un par galvánico, que promueve la posterior oxidación. El único método efectivo para eliminar el óxido es la electrolisis, o el método de Zinc-soda

For any restoration in parts of iron or steel, the only way to remove rust, is chemistry. Although it is cleaned with emery cloth, corrosion remains in the depressions, and the existence of an oxide as a foreign body in the metal surface forms a galvanic couple, which promotes further oxidation. The only effective method to remove rust is electrolysis, or the method of Zinc-soda
EscucharLeer fonéticamente
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Old 18th July 2011, 02:41 PM   #11
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As to possible damage, we should differentiate varios forms of rust.

Removing aggressive red surface rust does, in my experience, not need chemicals but just oil. Oiling will passivate it.

Old, plain and black rust is stable in itself and does not need any treatment except oil.

I dare repeat my credo once more: chemicals will irreversibly ruin and spoil old surfaces. I would always prefer a heavily patinated, dark iron surface to any bright polish. Its impression is much closer to the original period surface, and you can always take something off but hardly add anything!

Don't forget that these items have come down to us unrotten since hundreds of years in untouched condition. We won't live to see them vanish under our hands even if we preserve their charming old surfaces.

Best,
Michael

Last edited by fernando : 19th July 2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 18th July 2011, 02:42 PM   #12
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Grrr,

That silly question mark shouldn't be there but I can't seem to remove it.

m
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Old 18th July 2011, 10:33 PM   #13
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Hola, Matchlock

No existe óxido estable: la película de óxido sigue carcomiendo debajo de su superficie, aunque en apariencia permanece inmóvil. Hasta en el pavonado (en realidad una oxidacion controlada) si no se sigue un tratamiento adecuado, termina en una oxidacion severa.
La electrólisis es inocua para el metal, y se basa en la propiedad del hidrógeno naciente para descomponer el óxido. Lo mismo pasa con el método de zinc-soda.

Saludos, Fernando

Hello, Matchlock

There is no stable oxide, the oxide film is eating away beneath its surface, although seemingly immobile. Even the peacock (actually a controlled oxidation) not following proper treatment, ending in a severe oxidation.
Electrolysis is safe for metal, and is based on the ownership of the nascent hydrogen to break down rust. Same with the zinc-soda method.

Regards, Fernando
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Old 19th July 2011, 11:35 AM   #14
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Hi Fernando,

There seemingly still are different theories about rust. The workshops of the big museums share my theory, though.

Best,
Michael
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Old 19th July 2011, 12:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Grrr,

That silly question mark shouldn't be there but I can't seem to remove it.

m


Done
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Old 22nd July 2011, 02:17 PM   #16
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I normally use BIO-DERUSTER with great results.
As to the signature, please read the post "unknown origin" started by me, but with little result, except for the good will of Fernando.
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