Strange "zulfikar" dagger

Dom · 8th November 2007, 12:22 AM

Good Day
I tried without too much conviction ... it is true ... to acquire this dagger

(eBay),
it was intrigant, but I nevertheless doubted about his autenticity,

the difference in color between the handle and the scabbard intrigued me

resume of the comments ;
Rare 19th C. Indo-Persian ZULFIKAR Dagger
from North India, having a triple-bladed construction for opening and penetrating the armor with an armor-piercing central blade and two single-edged side blades having engraved decorations and inscriptions ...
All steel hilt and scabbard adorned with engraved images of men and women of royal or noble rank, some worn gold or copper inlays are evident in between......
Overall 17” the side blades are 9 1⁄4” the central blade with a spiked tip is 11 3⁄4” dating from around early to mid 19th century or possibly a bit earlier.
Winning bid: US $560.00

I stopped at half of the auction, does I have been wrong ??

Regards

à +

Dom

Emanuel · 8th November 2007, 03:43 AM

Salut Dom,

Here is a similar dagger that was discussed a long time ago: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=960 . Perhaps you were right to be suspicious

Regards,
Emanuel

fernando · 8th November 2007, 10:39 AM

Hi Dom

When i go to Lisbon and i visit the old weapons shop, i allways notice they have one of these,which i don't buy because of its modernity and aparent low quality.
It is not incized but has some koftgari traces, both in the sheath as in the outer blades. Beg. XX century. 250 euros.
The amazing thing is that the guy puts a name on it, something i don´t see in the previous threads under this subject.
He calls it a North India "Maomé" ( Mohamed ) jambya.
Regards
Fernando

ward · 8th November 2007, 11:36 AM

modern junk

Lew · 8th November 2007, 03:20 PM

The dagger seems older to me probably 1st half of the 20th century but it is a low quality looking tourist piece.

Lew

Dom · 8th November 2007, 07:54 PM

Tks every body
to have confirmed my deep feeling who prevent me to buy a "junk" as said "ward"

tks also to have guide me through old post,
I wasn't know them

I was remember such about "zulfikar sword" none about "dagger"
(I provided here a picture issued from an old bible, showing the Holy Prophet Ali with a "zulfikar sword",
but when I visited Damascus museum in Syria,
I was so disappointed because the book was unfortunately in exhibition in abroad)

Regards

à +

Dom

ward · 9th November 2007, 02:05 AM

I should not answer questions in the morning I get blunter than I mean. That piece is 20th century meant for the tourist trade and of poor quality. I have seen a lot of these over the years

DaveA · 9th November 2007, 04:40 AM

I have heard of this unusual knife before and was intrigued to see one on eBay, enough so to bid modestly. Reading this thread I am pleased with losing. But I wonder, if it is tourist junk (and I have no reason not to believe our esteemed forum colleagues) then how come we have not seen more of them on eBay? One good heuristic I use to spot fakes (not being an expert) is to note how many of the items (reasonably similar items) appear in any given month or so on eBay. This is the only zulfikar I've noted in several years of collecting. Given that this went for so much money, there is clearly a demand, even for junk!

Lew · 9th November 2007, 06:23 PM

I have seen a few of these over the last few years on ebay and they all seem to be of the same quality. Funny I have never seen a real old one say with a wootz or pattern welded blade so I think these are just some old type of Persian fantasy dagger that may not have a true historical ancestor.

Lew

ward · 9th November 2007, 10:37 PM

these fall in the same class as the scissor katar. They are just not practical as weapons. Weapon however exotic the shape have to be functional in battle

BBJW · 9th November 2007, 11:26 PM

I have been highly suspicious of this seller for quite some time.

bbjw

Battara · 10th November 2007, 05:46 PM

Acutually I have seen a lot of these over the years on eBay, gun and knife shows, other sites, etc.

Jeff D · 10th November 2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Acutually I have seen a lot of these over the years on eBay, gun and knife shows, other sites, etc.

I agree with Jose, about two years ago there were tons of these on e-bay.

Jeff

fernando · 11th November 2007, 12:21 AM

It seems as they are alive and kicking ... for good money.
Look under Indo Persia
http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Daggers.html

Gavin Nugent · 17th November 2007, 01:10 AM

Hi all, just wanted to let you know that there are two different examples of this style of knife found in the Berman Museum.

regards

Gav

8th November 2007, 12:22 AM	#1
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Strange "zulfikar" dagger Good Day I tried without too much conviction ... it is true ... to acquire this dagger (eBay), it was intrigant, but I nevertheless doubted about his autenticity, the difference in color between the handle and the scabbard intrigued me resume of the comments ; Rare 19th C. Indo-Persian ZULFIKAR Dagger from North India, having a triple-bladed construction for opening and penetrating the armor with an armor-piercing central blade and two single-edged side blades having engraved decorations and inscriptions ... All steel hilt and scabbard adorned with engraved images of men and women of royal or noble rank, some worn gold or copper inlays are evident in between...... Overall 17” the side blades are 9 1⁄4” the central blade with a spiked tip is 11 3⁄4” dating from around early to mid 19th century or possibly a bit earlier. Winning bid: US $560.00 I stopped at half of the auction, does I have been wrong ?? Regards à + Dom Attached Images

9th November 2007, 04:40 AM	#8
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Happy that I lost the auction! I have heard of this unusual knife before and was intrigued to see one on eBay, enough so to bid modestly. Reading this thread I am pleased with losing. But I wonder, if it is tourist junk (and I have no reason not to believe our esteemed forum colleagues) then how come we have not seen more of them on eBay? One good heuristic I use to spot fakes (not being an expert) is to note how many of the items (reasonably similar items) appear in any given month or so on eBay. This is the only zulfikar I've noted in several years of collecting. Given that this went for so much money, there is clearly a demand, even for junk!

17th November 2007, 01:10 AM	#15
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Berman Museum of World History Hi all, just wanted to let you know that there are two different examples of this style of knife found in the Berman Museum. regards Gav

8th November 2007, 03:43 AM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Salut Dom, Here is a similar dagger that was discussed a long time ago: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=960 . Perhaps you were right to be suspicious Regards, Emanuel

8th November 2007, 10:39 AM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Hi Dom When i go to Lisbon and i visit the old weapons shop, i allways notice they have one of these,which i don't buy because of its modernity and aparent low quality. It is not incized but has some koftgari traces, both in the sheath as in the outer blades. Beg. XX century. 250 euros. The amazing thing is that the guy puts a name on it, something i don´t see in the previous threads under this subject. He calls it a North India "Maomé" ( Mohamed ) jambya. Regards Fernando

8th November 2007, 11:36 AM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	modern junk

8th November 2007, 03:20 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The dagger seems older to me probably 1st half of the 20th century but it is a low quality looking tourist piece. Lew

8th November 2007, 07:54 PM	#6
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Tks every body to have confirmed my deep feeling who prevent me to buy a "junk" as said "ward" tks also to have guide me through old post, I wasn't know them I was remember such about "zulfikar sword" none about "dagger" (I provided here a picture issued from an old bible, showing the Holy Prophet Ali with a "zulfikar sword", but when I visited Damascus museum in Syria, I was so disappointed because the book was unfortunately in exhibition in abroad) Regards à + Dom

9th November 2007, 02:05 AM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I should not answer questions in the morning I get blunter than I mean. That piece is 20th century meant for the tourist trade and of poor quality. I have seen a lot of these over the years

9th November 2007, 06:23 PM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I have seen a few of these over the last few years on ebay and they all seem to be of the same quality. Funny I have never seen a real old one say with a wootz or pattern welded blade so I think these are just some old type of Persian fantasy dagger that may not have a true historical ancestor. Lew

9th November 2007, 10:37 PM	#10
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	these fall in the same class as the scissor katar. They are just not practical as weapons. Weapon however exotic the shape have to be functional in battle

9th November 2007, 11:26 PM	#11
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 225	I have been highly suspicious of this seller for quite some time. bbjw

10th November 2007, 05:46 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Acutually I have seen a lot of these over the years on eBay, gun and knife shows, other sites, etc.

11th November 2007, 12:21 AM	#14
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	It seems as they are alive and kicking ... for good money. Look under Indo Persia http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Daggers.html