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Old 16th November 2016, 12:01 PM   #1
francantolin
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Default old german (?!) hunting sword/dagger to date

Hello everybody,

I have bought this small hunting sword with his small knife
but I'm not sure about age, exact origin and metal for the hilt and scabbard mounts.

I think it is a german model, look 18th century ( ?!) but the small knife seems really recent ( there is a ''T'' stamped cf pictures) so maybe 20th century ?,
for the hilt, there is a 13 engraved, does it mean steel, silver alloy, silver ?

Kind regards

Francesco
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Old 18th November 2016, 04:57 AM   #2
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Any opinion ?

13 hallmark ?!
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Old 18th November 2016, 07:52 AM   #3
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nice one. complete trousse-like set. have seen this karabela shaped hilt on a number of french attributed hunting swords and variously described as 'european' or 'continental' from 18th & 19th century, some with solingen blades. almost invariably without scabbard or small dressing companion knife. blades on the ones i've seen vary from straight to curved, sometimes with a clipped point. i guess it could also have been very early 20th c. by someone who admired and copied an earlier example. i leave that attribution to those more expert. i would have thought late 19th myself, but the almost mint condition IS unusual. the sword looks like it may have a bit more age, is there patination on it's blade? hard to tell from the photo.
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Old 18th November 2016, 10:00 AM   #4
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It's a Karabela, Poland, 18. century.
Compare: fischerauktionen.ch / Sept. 2015 / Lot. 1229
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Old 18th November 2016, 10:28 AM   #5
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Hello Kronckew,

thank you for your message,
I will post some picures of the blade,

for the ''13'' hallmark, I think I was wrong:

the numerals were ''strange'': not a classic 1 and 3;
I think now that they are arabic numeral: a 4 and a 2 : so ''42'' will be written,
1842 ? 1942 ? Ottoman or north african ?...

( sure it looks like german daggers, the hilt form is oriental too ?)..

Kind regards
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Old 18th November 2016, 10:37 AM   #6
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Do you think I'll post it in the ethnographic weapons forum ?
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Old 18th November 2016, 12:43 PM   #7
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tank you Canos,

i'll look.

her some pictures of the blade ( classic ) one of the hilt with worm holes so must not be too recent ...
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Old 18th November 2016, 12:45 PM   #8
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:51 PM   #9
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If (if) this hilt were made of silver, this would be the German/Prussian hallmark Lot system. The 13 lot purity corresponds to 812/000 silver.


.
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Old 18th November 2016, 05:03 PM   #10
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The same type, compare also:
galeriedemars.fr / Armes blanches / sabre karabela, Polonais
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Old 18th November 2016, 06:08 PM   #11
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thank you Fernando !!

I looked about the lot stamps you told me and found a site about these lots

if it's like that, it will be an old austrian model of hunting dagger
( silver 812 as you told me ) Pretty cool if it's like that !!

http://www.silvercollection.it/aust...rhallmarks.html

( the T in the O on the blade of the small knife looks too like the old stamp )

Perhaps do you know how we can test silver authenticity ?

Kind regards
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Old 18th November 2016, 06:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin
...Perhaps do you know how we can test silver authenticity ?..

No, but there are members who can say something about that.
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Old 18th November 2016, 06:37 PM   #13
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a tiny drop of bleach on silver will turn it black, the purer the silver, the faster it reacts. when satisfied, wash it off & re-polish the spot. if it DOESN'T blacken, it isn't silver. (clean the area beforehand to make sure there is no oil or grease/wax coating to give a false negative...)

egg yolk will also blacken real silver quite quickly, it has sulphur in the yolk part.
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Old 18th November 2016, 07:23 PM   #14
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Ok tank you !!

I'll try and tell you ( better I think to start with the egg yolk !!)
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