New Hebridean club

Tim Simmons · 25th July 2011, 07:35 PM

This club was entomb in varnish. The hardest I have ever encounterd. It really looked a sorry sight. After a 2-3 hours work it is looking good. The varnish was so difficult to remove I wonder is the patination under the varnish suffered a little. On the other hand it may not have been heavily patinated at the time of collection. If varnished not long after collection it would not recieve further handing patination.

Just over 40 inches long. Both the club shown were released from varnish entombment.

Robert · 25th July 2011, 08:39 PM

Great looking clubs Tim. And a great job in removing the old varnish. I would be interested in knowing what you used to remove the varnish on these two, denatured alcohol, paint stripper or something else? A wonderful new addition to your ever growing collection.

Robert

Sajen · 25th July 2011, 09:17 PM

Special the more simple carved club seems to have a nice patination. Two nice clubs, congrats!

Regards,

Detlef

katana · 26th July 2011, 02:44 AM

Looks really good Tim ...congrats.

I'm glad that Tim posted the double ended club ...has anyone any information as to the techniques of use ...the martial arts of Oceania are not well documented.

Kind Regards David

Indianajones · 26th July 2011, 11:10 AM

Hello, one can easily remove varnish -indeed- with paintstripper. This is very chemical and biting substance, BUT the good thing is it only reacts with the applied varnish and NOT with natural substance (like wood n patine). Though with taking off the shrumbled residu and dissolved varnish it is very dificult -to my experience- to not effect the patine. I wash the residu off with hot water and dry immediately (otherwise the wood stains). One can also perhaps let the chemical residu dry totally until it can be taken off without using water, but I have never tried this actually (too impatience!).

Perhaps an (unorthodox) tip to regain some shine without using wax; take some big plantleaves and rub those in until they are smudgy and dirty looking. How strange it sounds; it leaves a natural plantoil behind; a very subtle and natural shine. I understand your sceptisism (I would be too); try it out on another piece of wood first.

Hopefully my experience is a help to any reader?!
My best tip for those restaurers; 'better think it out carefully, before you damage items permanently!'

fearn · 26th July 2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Looks really good Tim ...congrats.

I'm glad that Tim posted the double ended club ...has anyone any information as to the techniques of use ...the martial arts of Oceania are not well documented.

Kind Regards David

Perhaps something akin to the martial art referred to in this discussion? I know it's not from New Hebrides, but people got around.

F

Tim Simmons · 27th July 2011, 07:58 AM

Thank you fearn, this link had entered my mind-

http://books.google.com/books?id=HtI...%20art&f=false

I have recently heard the small Australian double pointed sticks named as "spindle clubs" To me they are more of a double ended hand spear stabbing weapon. They are not really long enough to be a two handed weapon.

The large club would be perfect for the fighting style "fearn" very studioulsy brought to our attention. I say it is New Hebriean as it appears to fit and display aspects similar to other New Hebridean club forms. This could be wrong? I do not know? All the referance I have does not show a New Heb club with quite the same double point ends. Here is an illustration of the nearst form I can find, it is 9cm longer than the example I have. It seems likely New Heb but I would not be surprised if it was from a Micronesian island, after the article fearn gave notice to.

fearn · 27th July 2011, 05:38 PM

I can't answer whether it's from Vanuatu or Micronesia either, but I suspect we should start tracking double-headed spears/poking clubs and figure out all the different places they come from.

My personal take is that it's a decent weapon for fighting on a canoe, so it may have been created independently in many places, or spread around through contact.

F

VANDOO · 27th July 2011, 06:06 PM

THIS DOUBLE END CAN SERVE THE FUNCTION OF BEING ABLE TO USE BOTH HANDS SORT OF LIKE A STAFF THIS MAKES BOTH ENDS FUNCTIONAL FOR CLOSE UP FIGHTING. THE STRIKES WOULD BE MOSTLY LIKE SPEARING SOMEONE WITH THE POINTED ENDS BUT YOU COULD SPIN AND BLOCK AND MAKE SHORT CLUB STRIKES AS WELL.
USING IT ONE HANDED WOULD ADD TO ITS STRIKING FORCE AS A CLUB AND THE KNOB AT THE END WOULD HELP KEEP THE CLUB IF THE ENEMY GOT HOLD OF THE OTHER END. THIS KIND OF CLUB IS SMALL LIGHT AND FAST NOT A LARGE HEAVY TWO HANDED BONE CRUSHER BUT IS STILL ABLE TO CRACK SKULLS AND BREAK BONES.
ONE HANDED CLUB USE FREES UP THE OTHER HAND IT MAKES ONE WONDER IF THE FREE HAND WAS USED TO GRAB OR HIT THE ENEMY OR IF OTHER WEAPONS WERE SOMETIMES USED. SOME OF THE SMALLER WOODEN DIAMOND SHAPED FORMS WOULD WORK WELL FOR A TWO WEAPON SYSTEM.
FOR SOME REASON IN MUCH OF ISLAND WARFARE SHIELDS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN MISSING. PERHAPS SOME GROUPS CONSIDERED IT UNMANLY OR COWARDLY TO HIDE BEHIND SOMETHING AND RELIED ON AGILITY.? NICE CLUB WITH TWO FUNCTIONAL ENDS I HAVE SOME OF SIMULAR FORM BUT WITH FANCY PIERCED CARVING ON THE BUTT RENDERING THEM LESS FUNCTIONAL FOR WAR.

fearn · 27th July 2011, 08:04 PM

Hi Vandoo,

Since both Vanuatu (formerly New Hebrides) and eastern Micronesia are offshoots of the Lapita culture, it's possible that the idea of fighting without shields dates back to the Lapita. Since the Lapita came from Taiwan originally, that idea may go back quite a long ways.

Or it might be practicality. After all, what are you going to make a shield out of, on an atoll, and is it any better a defense than simply dodging?

Neat question though.

F

25th July 2011, 07:35 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	New Hebridean club This club was entomb in varnish. The hardest I have ever encounterd. It really looked a sorry sight. After a 2-3 hours work it is looking good. The varnish was so difficult to remove I wonder is the patination under the varnish suffered a little. On the other hand it may not have been heavily patinated at the time of collection. If varnished not long after collection it would not recieve further handing patination. Just over 40 inches long. Both the club shown were released from varnish entombment. Attached Images

27th July 2011, 07:58 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Thank you fearn, this link had entered my mind- http://books.google.com/books?id=HtI...%20art&f=false I have recently heard the small Australian double pointed sticks named as "spindle clubs" To me they are more of a double ended hand spear stabbing weapon. They are not really long enough to be a two handed weapon. The large club would be perfect for the fighting style "fearn" very studioulsy brought to our attention. I say it is New Hebriean as it appears to fit and display aspects similar to other New Hebridean club forms. This could be wrong? I do not know? All the referance I have does not show a New Heb club with quite the same double point ends. Here is an illustration of the nearst form I can find, it is 9cm longer than the example I have. It seems likely New Heb but I would not be surprised if it was from a Micronesian island, after the article fearn gave notice to. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th July 2011 at 08:20 AM.

25th July 2011, 08:39 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Great looking clubs Tim. And a great job in removing the old varnish. I would be interested in knowing what you used to remove the varnish on these two, denatured alcohol, paint stripper or something else? A wonderful new addition to your ever growing collection. Robert

25th July 2011, 09:17 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,497	Special the more simple carved club seems to have a nice patination. Two nice clubs, congrats! Regards, Detlef

26th July 2011, 02:44 AM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Looks really good Tim ...congrats. I'm glad that Tim posted the double ended club ...has anyone any information as to the techniques of use ...the martial arts of Oceania are not well documented. Kind Regards David

26th July 2011, 11:10 AM	#5
Indianajones Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 180	Hello, one can easily remove varnish -indeed- with paintstripper. This is very chemical and biting substance, BUT the good thing is it only reacts with the applied varnish and NOT with natural substance (like wood n patine). Though with taking off the shrumbled residu and dissolved varnish it is very dificult -to my experience- to not effect the patine. I wash the residu off with hot water and dry immediately (otherwise the wood stains). One can also perhaps let the chemical residu dry totally until it can be taken off without using water, but I have never tried this actually (too impatience!). Perhaps an (unorthodox) tip to regain some shine without using wax; take some big plantleaves and rub those in until they are smudgy and dirty looking. How strange it sounds; it leaves a natural plantoil behind; a very subtle and natural shine. I understand your sceptisism (I would be too); try it out on another piece of wood first. Hopefully my experience is a help to any reader?! My best tip for those restaurers; 'better think it out carefully, before you damage items permanently!'

27th July 2011, 05:38 PM	#8
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I can't answer whether it's from Vanuatu or Micronesia either, but I suspect we should start tracking double-headed spears/poking clubs and figure out all the different places they come from. My personal take is that it's a decent weapon for fighting on a canoe, so it may have been created independently in many places, or spread around through contact. F

27th July 2011, 06:06 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS DOUBLE END CAN SERVE THE FUNCTION OF BEING ABLE TO USE BOTH HANDS SORT OF LIKE A STAFF THIS MAKES BOTH ENDS FUNCTIONAL FOR CLOSE UP FIGHTING. THE STRIKES WOULD BE MOSTLY LIKE SPEARING SOMEONE WITH THE POINTED ENDS BUT YOU COULD SPIN AND BLOCK AND MAKE SHORT CLUB STRIKES AS WELL. USING IT ONE HANDED WOULD ADD TO ITS STRIKING FORCE AS A CLUB AND THE KNOB AT THE END WOULD HELP KEEP THE CLUB IF THE ENEMY GOT HOLD OF THE OTHER END. THIS KIND OF CLUB IS SMALL LIGHT AND FAST NOT A LARGE HEAVY TWO HANDED BONE CRUSHER BUT IS STILL ABLE TO CRACK SKULLS AND BREAK BONES. ONE HANDED CLUB USE FREES UP THE OTHER HAND IT MAKES ONE WONDER IF THE FREE HAND WAS USED TO GRAB OR HIT THE ENEMY OR IF OTHER WEAPONS WERE SOMETIMES USED. SOME OF THE SMALLER WOODEN DIAMOND SHAPED FORMS WOULD WORK WELL FOR A TWO WEAPON SYSTEM. FOR SOME REASON IN MUCH OF ISLAND WARFARE SHIELDS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN MISSING. PERHAPS SOME GROUPS CONSIDERED IT UNMANLY OR COWARDLY TO HIDE BEHIND SOMETHING AND RELIED ON AGILITY.? NICE CLUB WITH TWO FUNCTIONAL ENDS I HAVE SOME OF SIMULAR FORM BUT WITH FANCY PIERCED CARVING ON THE BUTT RENDERING THEM LESS FUNCTIONAL FOR WAR.

27th July 2011, 08:04 PM	#10
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Vandoo, Since both Vanuatu (formerly New Hebrides) and eastern Micronesia are offshoots of the Lapita culture, it's possible that the idea of fighting without shields dates back to the Lapita. Since the Lapita came from Taiwan originally, that idea may go back quite a long ways. Or it might be practicality. After all, what are you going to make a shield out of, on an atoll, and is it any better a defense than simply dodging? Neat question though. F