naga keris with pamor miring

satsujinken · 29th July 2016, 06:29 AM

well, long time not showing up here, as somehow I forgot the password !!

cheering up today, is one of my collection, a naga keris with pamor miring

somehow, it's getting rarer and rarer to see, perhaps because this type of pamor is harder to make ? or simply no longer economical to make one ?

when it arrived it was covered with rust and some kind of sticky goo, which is very hard to remove, and it reeked with sandalwood aroma

tell me what you guys think ...

Donny

satsujinken · 29th July 2016, 06:31 AM

more pics

Jean · 29th July 2016, 09:36 AM

Hello Satsujinken,
Although you found this blade in rusty condition, it looks recent to me and quite similar to the ones which you showed us earlier. The pamor pattern may be Eri Wader or Unthuk Banyu, and the blade shape lacks elegance as the luks are uneven.
Regards

satsujinken · 29th July 2016, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Satsujinken,
Although you found this blade in rusty condition, it looks recent to me and quite similar to the ones which you showed us earlier. The pamor pattern may be Eri Wader or Unthuk Banyu, and the blade shape lacks elegance as the luks are uneven.
Regards

Sorry I forgot to sign my name

What do you mean by the luks are uneven ?

This sort of dhapur is rather unique, panji kuda and the luks are made that way

Donny

mariusgmioc · 29th July 2016, 10:44 AM

Although I am just a novice in the field, and although it is quite dificult to judge by the photos, I believe this is a very recent Kris.

PS: Very recent meaning made probably this year.

satsujinken · 29th July 2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Although I am just a novice in the field, and although it is quite dificult to judge by the photos, I believe this is a very recent Kris.

PS: Very recent meaning made probably this year.

hahahahaha ... good eye !!

and may you elaborate why you think so ?

Jean · 29th July 2016, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satsujinken

Sorry I forgot to sign my name

What do you mean by the luks are uneven ?

This sort of dhapur is rather unique, panji kuda and the luks are made that way

Donny

Hello Donny,
This daphur with luks at the base and tip only, and straight in the middle section of the blade may be unique, but it still looks odd in my eyes....
Regards

mariusgmioc · 29th July 2016, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satsujinken

hahahahaha ... good eye !!

and may you elaborate why you think so ?

The high relief "pamor" or whatever it is called is the result of very modern processing... I believe.

Also about everything else looks very similar to the very recent Kerises I saw this year in Indonesia. And some of them were obviously artificially aged.

For example the metal sheath cover looks like being made of pressed & aged aluminium foil attempting to look like silver.

Rafngard · 29th July 2016, 04:19 PM

Despite being recent, the high-relief pamor is kind of a cool effect.

Thanks,
Leif

Rick · 29th July 2016, 04:38 PM

More miring...

I'm wondering if OP's keris has a core, or if it's just pamor material?

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2016, 11:01 PM

Marius, the pendok is the real deal, not some sort of machine produced garbage. No idea how old it is, if its mamas (unlikely) its pre-WWII, if its brass with poor quality plate its pretty recent, but it was made by hand and in the same way that this type of pendok has been made for a very long time. It might also be white brass. But its real, and really pretty fair quality.

Same goes for the wrongko.

Mendak? ugh!

Blade? nice quality current production, probably no core, but then the very few old ones of these I've handled didn't have a core either.

Some pamor motifs cannot be produced with a core, like buntel mayat for instance --- well, that's an untrue statement, they can be produced with a core, but I've never seen one with a core, and I very much doubt that they ever were made with a core.

All in all, not a bad keris --- except for that disaster of a mendak --- but its not old. It is artistically not a bad effort.

Oh yeah, the dhapur is legitimate. Absolutely.

If one's taste is orientated to antiques it is obviously unacceptable.

If one's taste is orientated towards keris, and all that this implies, it is very acceptable.

Then of course we have the question of value difference between a current era production and an old example of something well made and rare:- this difference can be heart stopping.

David · 30th July 2016, 05:41 AM

I agree with Alan on this one regarding the dhapur. I have seen similar "uneven" luk dhapurs and in fact have an example (albeit a contemporary version) of such luk spacing in my own collection.
While i appreciate the effort artistically to some extent i am not particularly fond of the apparent lack of a core. While, as Alan points out, some blades such as buntel mayat tend to be coreless, this does not seem to be one where i would expect or desire a lack of a core.
But yes, this is most certainly modern production. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

mariusgmioc · 30th July 2016, 07:42 AM

Thank you Alan and David for the information!

Have a nice weekend!

Jean · 31st July 2016, 09:18 AM

Hello Donny,
This kris is for sale on EBay (Item N° 142069169654) which constitutes a violation of the rules of this forum!
Regards

mariusgmioc · 31st July 2016, 10:23 AM

Why do I have the feeling that this forum is being used for personal gain?!

Jean · 31st July 2016, 01:44 PM

May be Donny was not aware of this rule, I did not notice it myself on EBay but a friend did and communicated the ad to me. Let us wait what Donny and the moderators have to say.
Regards

Rick · 31st July 2016, 03:10 PM

Aware or not; Donny has bought himself a 10 day suspension starting now....

Rick · 31st July 2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Why do I have the feeling that this forum is being used for personal gain?!

Thank you for the edit Marius.
Yes, people flogging new keris are sometimes a problem here.

Rick · 31st July 2016, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

May be Donny was not aware of this rule, I did not notice it myself on EBay but a friend did and communicated the ad to me. Let us wait what Donny and the moderators have to say.
Regards

Thank you Jean; you did the proper thing in sharing that information with us.

David · 31st July 2016, 04:54 PM

Sorry guys, i've been on vacation and missed this thread for a few days. Rick and i are certainly in agreement. Using this forum to flog your wares, old or new, for sale on eBay or other venues will not be tolerated. Continued abuse of this forum for such purposes will lead to a permanent banning from these forums. Period!

mariusgmioc · 31st July 2016, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Thank you for the edit Marius.
Yes, people flogging new keris are sometimes a problem here.

Thank you Rick!

Sometimes I get too paranoid...

satsujinken · 1st August 2016, 04:25 AM

sorry

I never used this forum for personal gain

and to be honest, I only listed the keris on ebay because I wanted to show folks in Indonesian blades forum, how keris is being underrated as part of my discussion last week, on how a poor quality wakizashi can be sold for 1000 USD

whereas a decent keris with intricate pamors, with a very difficult forging technique will fetch only 100 - 200 USD

basically I wanted keris to be appreciated more as it is a very beautiful work of art

and err ... what should I do now ? put down the listing ??

Donny

David · 4th August 2016, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satsujinken

sorry

I never used this forum for personal gain

and to be honest, I only listed the keris on ebay because I wanted to show folks in Indonesian blades forum, how keris is being underrated as part of my discussion last week, on how a poor quality wakizashi can be sold for 1000 USD

whereas a decent keris with intricate pamors, with a very difficult forging technique will fetch only 100 - 200 USD

basically I wanted keris to be appreciated more as it is a very beautiful work of art

and err ... what should I do now ? put down the listing ??

Donny

Whatever you thought your intention was in listing this keris while carrying on a discussion about it on the forum the end result is that indeed it does create a situation where you do personally gain. It is also very clearly a violation of forum rules. It is not an arbitrary rule, it is in place for various reasons, and it is absolutely the obligation of all our members to read and understand the rules before participating.
This thread has been closed so really you don't need to do anything other than not do it again.

29th July 2016, 06:29 AM	#1
satsujinken Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surabaya - Indonesia Posts: 199	naga keris with pamor miring well, long time not showing up here, as somehow I forgot the password !! cheering up today, is one of my collection, a naga keris with pamor miring somehow, it's getting rarer and rarer to see, perhaps because this type of pamor is harder to make ? or simply no longer economical to make one ? when it arrived it was covered with rust and some kind of sticky goo, which is very hard to remove, and it reeked with sandalwood aroma tell me what you guys think ... Donny Attached Images Last edited by satsujinken; 29th July 2016 at 10:22 AM.

29th July 2016, 06:31 AM	#2
satsujinken Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surabaya - Indonesia Posts: 199	more pics Attached Images

29th July 2016, 04:19 PM	#9
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 324	Maybe new, but still cool Despite being recent, the high-relief pamor is kind of a cool effect. Thanks, Leif

29th July 2016, 04:38 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	More miring... I'm wondering if OP's keris has a core, or if it's just pamor material? Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 29th July 2016 at 05:32 PM.

31st July 2016, 10:23 AM	#15
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,870	Why do I have the feeling that this forum is being used for personal gain?! Last edited by mariusgmioc; 31st July 2016 at 10:55 AM.

29th July 2016, 09:36 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Satsujinken, Although you found this blade in rusty condition, it looks recent to me and quite similar to the ones which you showed us earlier. The pamor pattern may be Eri Wader or Unthuk Banyu, and the blade shape lacks elegance as the luks are uneven. Regards

29th July 2016, 10:44 AM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,870	Although I am just a novice in the field, and although it is quite dificult to judge by the photos, I believe this is a very recent Kris. PS: Very recent meaning made probably this year.

29th July 2016, 11:01 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,699	Marius, the pendok is the real deal, not some sort of machine produced garbage. No idea how old it is, if its mamas (unlikely) its pre-WWII, if its brass with poor quality plate its pretty recent, but it was made by hand and in the same way that this type of pendok has been made for a very long time. It might also be white brass. But its real, and really pretty fair quality. Same goes for the wrongko. Mendak? ugh! Blade? nice quality current production, probably no core, but then the very few old ones of these I've handled didn't have a core either. Some pamor motifs cannot be produced with a core, like buntel mayat for instance --- well, that's an untrue statement, they can be produced with a core, but I've never seen one with a core, and I very much doubt that they ever were made with a core. All in all, not a bad keris --- except for that disaster of a mendak --- but its not old. It is artistically not a bad effort. Oh yeah, the dhapur is legitimate. Absolutely. If one's taste is orientated to antiques it is obviously unacceptable. If one's taste is orientated towards keris, and all that this implies, it is very acceptable. Then of course we have the question of value difference between a current era production and an old example of something well made and rare:- this difference can be heart stopping.

30th July 2016, 05:41 AM	#12
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	I agree with Alan on this one regarding the dhapur. I have seen similar "uneven" luk dhapurs and in fact have an example (albeit a contemporary version) of such luk spacing in my own collection. While i appreciate the effort artistically to some extent i am not particularly fond of the apparent lack of a core. While, as Alan points out, some blades such as buntel mayat tend to be coreless, this does not seem to be one where i would expect or desire a lack of a core. But yes, this is most certainly modern production. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

30th July 2016, 07:42 AM	#13
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,870	Thank you Alan and David for the information! Have a nice weekend!

31st July 2016, 09:18 AM	#14
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Donny, This kris is for sale on EBay (Item N° 142069169654) which constitutes a violation of the rules of this forum! Regards

31st July 2016, 01:44 PM	#16
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	May be Donny was not aware of this rule, I did not notice it myself on EBay but a friend did and communicated the ad to me. Let us wait what Donny and the moderators have to say. Regards

31st July 2016, 03:10 PM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Aware or not; Donny has bought himself a 10 day suspension starting now....

31st July 2016, 04:54 PM	#20
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	Sorry guys, i've been on vacation and missed this thread for a few days. Rick and i are certainly in agreement. Using this forum to flog your wares, old or new, for sale on eBay or other venues will not be tolerated. Continued abuse of this forum for such purposes will lead to a permanent banning from these forums. Period!

1st August 2016, 04:25 AM	#22
satsujinken Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surabaya - Indonesia Posts: 199	sorry I never used this forum for personal gain and to be honest, I only listed the keris on ebay because I wanted to show folks in Indonesian blades forum, how keris is being underrated as part of my discussion last week, on how a poor quality wakizashi can be sold for 1000 USD whereas a decent keris with intricate pamors, with a very difficult forging technique will fetch only 100 - 200 USD basically I wanted keris to be appreciated more as it is a very beautiful work of art and err ... what should I do now ? put down the listing ?? Donny