Palembang keris?

[A. G. Maisey]

As you wish David, maybe we just went to different schools, or maybe we're looking at a difference in societal usage.

To me, "specific" means precise, whilst "suspect" indicates an idea or an impression. If I have specific evidence of something, I'm quite prepared to put somebody into court, if I only have suspicion of something, I throw the matter back to the investigators, no matter how strongly I may suspect.

My suspicion in respect of motifs is rooted in the fact that I cannot recall ever having seen an original Palembang pendok of the type indicated by this gandar as having an embossed or engraved motif.

[Jean]

This is not a recently made pendok

[A. G. Maisey]

Interesting Jean, in fact, there are several quite interesting things about this keris.

But putting matters other than the pendok to one side, what I actually said was:- "It was most likely without any motif." This is a qualified statement.

It is not difficult to find Palembang keris with an embossed motif to the pendok, really, all you need to do is few google searches. However, if we look very carefully at these embossed Palembang pendok, what we sometimes, or perhaps frequently note is that many of these embossed pendok have slight variations in form from the genuine Palembang pendok form, and that the embossing work looks decidedly Kota Gede, and we do know that Kota Gede workshops have accepted work from all across SE Asia for many years. Most particularly the workshop of Bp.Prawirodihardjo(alm.)

Something else we find is that the various elements of the dress vary remarkably from what we historically associate with Palembang .

But when we come across an old Palembang keris of very good quality, and that has been outside of SE Asia for a lengthy period we find that the pendok will be free of motifs. This has been my experience, but others might have had a different experience.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

My suspicion in respect of motifs is rooted in the fact that I cannot recall ever having seen an original Palembang pendok of the type indicated by this gandar as having an embossed or engraved motif.

Frankly i was more wonder why you felt this keris was likely to have had a suasa pendok than whether it held a motif or not. I haven't seen too many suasa pendok of Palembang keris at all, though certainly they exist. But in general i am just not used to see you be so speculative so i was questioning you in hopes of understand what fueled your suspicions enough to comment on it.

[A. G. Maisey]

So, why suasa?

If we look very carefully at the fitting of the selut to the hilt, it is not all that great, my gut feeling is that this selut is a later fitting, maybe bought in the market and fitted by the owner.

The blade would have cost serious money, somebody who could afford this blade could certainly afford suasa, which can go very low in gold content, and at the time it was made would not have been all that expensive. At various times in the past, the cost of gold was not all that more expensive than silver, & if you're using low carat gold, it not really going to break the bank.

But its true, I'm just floating an opinion, others can can have differing opinions.

As for the prevalence of suasa, there have always been more people with tight budgets than people with flexible budgets.

[kai]

I'm with Alan, David.

A plain suasa pendok is the norm in Palembang for high-end pieces. Obviously, these are only a fraction of all keris Palembang.

Quite a few ensembles lost such pendok later on. Thus, they are not very common; still, there are enough examples in musea and old collections to prove this local preference.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Peter,

Please post close-ups of the wood under strong daylight after some TLC. This will help to estimate the quality of the timber utuilized for the fittings.

The hilt definitely is of high quality material.

Also please take close-up of the crosspiece before cleaning/treatment - sometimes a "shadow" from the pendok can be discernible under strong light.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

A plain suasa pendok is the norm in Palembang for high-end pieces. Obviously, these are only a fraction of all keris Palembang.

hmmm...maybe i should have the metal tested on the pendok on my high end Palembang keris. I have always assumed it was brass.

[kai]

The difference is very obvious to the eye, David!

[kai]

Here's an example that hasn't been repolished for quite a while:

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

The difference is very obvious to the eye, David!

LOL! Yes Kai, i was making a joke. Sorry it went past you.
Just my way of wondering how something can be the "norm" while at the same time existing only in a "fraction" of examples.