A Paiwan knife on Ebay

yuanzhumin · 3rd June 2010, 12:05 PM

Well, I also found my own treasure recently, and I found it on…Ebay.
The knife was mislabeled (a kris… from the Philippines…), and it was not placed in the right category. See : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
To be more exact, one of our eminent forum members attracted my attention to this item. In addition, as the Ebay seller was restricting the sale only to the USA, I asked the help of another friend in the States: he managed to buy it for me, and he resent it to me in China. I’m very grateful to these two gentlemen : without their help, this whole thing wouldn’t have been possible. Thanks, R and M.
The result is a nice, old and authentic Paiwan knife coming out of nowhere and joining my collection. Nevertheless, it didn’t come cheap. I guess the only other bidder (may be someone from this forum – if it is, sorry for this !) knew exactly what it was and the real value of this rare knife.
I just received it, and I attached here some other pictures.

migueldiaz · 3rd June 2010, 01:23 PM

yuanzhumin, that's a very nice knife! and very rich in symbolism, too.

would you like to share to us what is presently known about what's represented by the snake or serpent, and what the human figures and faces represent?

congratulations, on this great find

yuanzhumin · 6th June 2010, 04:09 AM

We have on this sword most of the commonly found symbols among the Paiwan that are human heads, human figure and animals.
We are here in a hunting society, and the common games are the deers, the squirrels... In fact, human are also hunted for their head in a magic purpose, a kind of exorcism ritual that guarantee the well-being of the community. That's the reason why human heads are always kept close to the livings in Paiwan society. On this knife, they are symbolized by the serie of 5 alined heads on the top part of the scabbard.
On the other way, the head standing alone, like the one the tip of the scabbard, is representing an ancestor whose power is protecting the hunter.
The interesting fact is that this head is carved on the tip of the scabbard that is itself shaped like a snake head : so the ancestor head and the snake head are making one.
This unity ancestor-snake is the result of the belief among the Paiwan aristocracy that their most original ancestor is a snake, the hundred paces snake, that is called like this because once it has biten someone, this person has only hundred paces to walk before dying.
So the long snake pattern seen on the closed side of the scabbard is symbolizing this original ancestor, and many taboos are related to it.
On the handle, the human figures represented in a more realistic way have usually no religious/spiritual meaning. They are just there for a decorative purpose.

migueldiaz · 6th June 2010, 12:04 PM

thanks a lot yuanzhumin for the comments.

there's a lot of commonality all right between aboriginal taiwanese and ancient filipino beliefs.

in the philippines' case, the serpent is also believed by the ancient filipinos as their aid and protector. and said belief certainly found its way on our traditional designs (e.g., fabric, dance, woodcarving, weapons design, etc.).

KuKulzA28 · 7th June 2010, 05:11 PM

Too expensive for me, but good to know it is in good hands!

I was wondering, how would you differentiate this Paiwan knife from a Rukai or Puyuma knife? They all have similar motifs and blade styles if I remember correctly... what makes this knife definitely Paiwanese?

Thanks

yuanzhumin · 11th June 2010, 12:04 AM

Because of a first classification established by the Japanese anthropologists when their country colonized the island over one hundred years ago, it has been for a long time, considered that the Puyuma, the Rukai and the Paiwan were making one ethnic group. Due to some obvious differences, the individual ethnic identity of the two smaller groups that are the Rukai (population : 12000) and the Puyuma (pop. 10000) have finally been recognized and established distinctly from the Paiwan (pop. 70000).
The three tribes are speaking Paiwanic languages and have strong similarities in their cultures. But they are also very different in many ways. The languages are from the same family, but still quite different (for example, think about Latin languages and how French, Italian and Spanish became different): even among the Rukai, inside a same valley, from one village to the other, it can be difficult to understand each other and communicate.
So languages evolved differently, and so are the customs or even the traditional patterns in the material culture, what brings me back to the swords. In fact, they are very different in style if you pay attention, and a glance usually is enough to immediately distinguish a Paiwan knife from a Rukai’s one or a Puyuma’s one.
So, for the Paiwan swords, you already have seen two of them recently on this forum:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=paiwan
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=paiwan
But here is for the Rukai’s swords (the first pictures in the thread are of a Rukai sword presented by Rick, and there are also other samples I displayed further on the first page of the same thread):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=rukai
Now the Puyuma swords :

KuKulzA28 · 11th June 2010, 05:47 AM

Ahhh! I see!

Now that you point it out, I see the differences very clearly. Thanks!

It is interesting what you say about the Paiwan, Rukai, and Puyuma sharing many cultural similarities. If I'm not mistaken, it is almost a parallel with the Atayal with whom the Taroko/Seediq and the Saisiyat share a lot of cultural similarities. And the laraw and it's sheath of the Tayal, Seediq, and Saisiyat share many similarities as well. They have the curved blade and either a wooden or metal socket handle. The sheaths all tend to be the "fish-shaped" kind. I don't know if the fish shape is intentional, since they range from fish-shaped to only abstractly fish-shaped depending on the piece.

Say, do you know if the Paiwan, Rukai, and Puyuma still have blades being made today?

I know for a fact that in Tahsi/Dasi there's some Hakka who make laraw for Tayal (mine was from there), and that in Tongmen, Hualien the Taroko/Seediq make blades as well... always good to see such traditions maintained.

3rd June 2010, 12:05 PM	#1
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	A Paiwan knife on Ebay Well, I also found my own treasure recently, and I found it on…Ebay. The knife was mislabeled (a kris… from the Philippines…), and it was not placed in the right category. See : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT To be more exact, one of our eminent forum members attracted my attention to this item. In addition, as the Ebay seller was restricting the sale only to the USA, I asked the help of another friend in the States: he managed to buy it for me, and he resent it to me in China. I’m very grateful to these two gentlemen : without their help, this whole thing wouldn’t have been possible. Thanks, R and M. The result is a nice, old and authentic Paiwan knife coming out of nowhere and joining my collection. Nevertheless, it didn’t come cheap. I guess the only other bidder (may be someone from this forum – if it is, sorry for this !) knew exactly what it was and the real value of this rare knife. I just received it, and I attached here some other pictures. Attached Images

11th June 2010, 12:04 AM	#6
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Because of a first classification established by the Japanese anthropologists when their country colonized the island over one hundred years ago, it has been for a long time, considered that the Puyuma, the Rukai and the Paiwan were making one ethnic group. Due to some obvious differences, the individual ethnic identity of the two smaller groups that are the Rukai (population : 12000) and the Puyuma (pop. 10000) have finally been recognized and established distinctly from the Paiwan (pop. 70000). The three tribes are speaking Paiwanic languages and have strong similarities in their cultures. But they are also very different in many ways. The languages are from the same family, but still quite different (for example, think about Latin languages and how French, Italian and Spanish became different): even among the Rukai, inside a same valley, from one village to the other, it can be difficult to understand each other and communicate. So languages evolved differently, and so are the customs or even the traditional patterns in the material culture, what brings me back to the swords. In fact, they are very different in style if you pay attention, and a glance usually is enough to immediately distinguish a Paiwan knife from a Rukai’s one or a Puyuma’s one. So, for the Paiwan swords, you already have seen two of them recently on this forum: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=paiwan http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=paiwan But here is for the Rukai’s swords (the first pictures in the thread are of a Rukai sword presented by Rick, and there are also other samples I displayed further on the first page of the same thread): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=rukai Now the Puyuma swords : Attached Images

11th June 2010, 05:47 AM	#7
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Ahhh! I see! Now that you point it out, I see the differences very clearly. Thanks! It is interesting what you say about the Paiwan, Rukai, and Puyuma sharing many cultural similarities. If I'm not mistaken, it is almost a parallel with the Atayal with whom the Taroko/Seediq and the Saisiyat share a lot of cultural similarities. And the laraw and it's sheath of the Tayal, Seediq, and Saisiyat share many similarities as well. They have the curved blade and either a wooden or metal socket handle. The sheaths all tend to be the "fish-shaped" kind. I don't know if the fish shape is intentional, since they range from fish-shaped to only abstractly fish-shaped depending on the piece. Say, do you know if the Paiwan, Rukai, and Puyuma still have blades being made today? I know for a fact that in Tahsi/Dasi there's some Hakka who make laraw for Tayal (mine was from there), and that in Tongmen, Hualien the Taroko/Seediq make blades as well... always good to see such traditions maintained.

3rd June 2010, 01:23 PM	#2
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	yuanzhumin, that's a very nice knife! and very rich in symbolism, too. would you like to share to us what is presently known about what's represented by the snake or serpent, and what the human figures and faces represent? congratulations, on this great find

6th June 2010, 04:09 AM	#3
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	We have on this sword most of the commonly found symbols among the Paiwan that are human heads, human figure and animals. We are here in a hunting society, and the common games are the deers, the squirrels... In fact, human are also hunted for their head in a magic purpose, a kind of exorcism ritual that guarantee the well-being of the community. That's the reason why human heads are always kept close to the livings in Paiwan society. On this knife, they are symbolized by the serie of 5 alined heads on the top part of the scabbard. On the other way, the head standing alone, like the one the tip of the scabbard, is representing an ancestor whose power is protecting the hunter. The interesting fact is that this head is carved on the tip of the scabbard that is itself shaped like a snake head : so the ancestor head and the snake head are making one. This unity ancestor-snake is the result of the belief among the Paiwan aristocracy that their most original ancestor is a snake, the hundred paces snake, that is called like this because once it has biten someone, this person has only hundred paces to walk before dying. So the long snake pattern seen on the closed side of the scabbard is symbolizing this original ancestor, and many taboos are related to it. On the handle, the human figures represented in a more realistic way have usually no religious/spiritual meaning. They are just there for a decorative purpose.

6th June 2010, 12:04 PM	#4
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	thanks a lot yuanzhumin for the comments. there's a lot of commonality all right between aboriginal taiwanese and ancient filipino beliefs. in the philippines' case, the serpent is also believed by the ancient filipinos as their aid and protector. and said belief certainly found its way on our traditional designs (e.g., fabric, dance, woodcarving, weapons design, etc.).

7th June 2010, 05:11 PM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Too expensive for me, but good to know it is in good hands! I was wondering, how would you differentiate this Paiwan knife from a Rukai or Puyuma knife? They all have similar motifs and blade styles if I remember correctly... what makes this knife definitely Paiwanese? Thanks