A RECENTLY ACQUIRED CUP HILT SWORD FOR COMMENTS

[fernando]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

... The "orejas" is what Luis Pacheco de Narvaez calls them in his work about Spanish Destreza "Nueva Ciencia" from 1642...
... Burton book shall be easy to find as a pdf on internet...

I have managed to get both PDF works for my perusal. Interesting that i use the search button in "Nueva Ciencia" and can only find "oreja" (single), but this referring to the actual phisical ear. To my frustration i fail to spot the cuphilt "orejas".
I have read the Burton's chapter on the waved blad, which is (sort of) consistent with the opinion of the book author i mentioned in post #7 ,as Burton says "The object seems to be that of increasing the cutting surface".

Attached ... and just for fun; fencers in the training floor (1685).


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[Victrix]

Originally Posted by fernando

I have managed to get both PDF works for my perusal. Interesting that i use the search button in "Nueva Ciencia" and can only find "oreja" (single), but this referring to the actual phisical ear. To my frustration i fail to spot the cuphilt "orejas".
I have read the Burton's chapter on the waved blad, which is (sort of) consistent with the opinion of the book author i mentioned in post #7 ,as Burton says "The object seems to be that of increasing the cutting surface".

Attached ... and just for fun; fencers in the training floor (1685).


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Are the wavy parts of the blade sharp at all?? If not, they are clearly not for cutting. Looks to me like its decorational for ceremonial use.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Are the wavy parts of the blade sharp at all?? If not, they are clearly not for cutting. Looks to me like its decorational for ceremonial use.

It depends on whether you see it in pictures or with the naked eye. In the example in discussion, both 'upper' edges and identations are sharpened, with different techniques, so i notice; the sharpness on the lower parts appears more acute. I wonder if the pictures i took are elucidative ... not easy with my humble abilities.
This thing of (any) blades being operational or decorative depending on them being or not sharpen/ed, may not be a black or white issue ... i guess. There is a montante (two handed sword) in Lisbon military Museum, dated circa 1500, attributed to navigator Vasco da Gama, which the photographer (i guess also the caption) defines as being 'almost' decorative, judging by the XVI century period, and i read in period chronicles that the nobility in India, the social class that marched on the front of troops, used such montantes to open way among the opponents. Whether those were not sharpened, would that be a pertinent question ?


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[fernando]

Swords with undulated blades from the Pindela Manor; a collection amassed by the 2nd. Viscount of Pindela (1852-1922). After he died, the widow has deaccessed the collection, which is now exhibited in the State owned Palace of the Dukes of Bragança.

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[midelburgo]

Hello Fernando.
If the "orejas" applied to the pas d'ane is not in "Nueva Ciencia" I have no idea where I read it.
Towards 2005 I read a number of Destreza manuals. It is not in Rada either so far. And Brea (1804) calls them "patillas".
I have been checking the Ordenanzas (1728, 1738, 1762, 1768) and it is not in there. They use "barretas".

Morla (Tratado de Artilleria, second volume, 1817 edition; pages 119-137 deals with swords and sword making, very informative chapter. Toledo factory depended on the Artillery corps) calls them "guardamonte", but that is the whole piece.

Ramirez de Arellano 1767, on Cavalry and Dragoons describes their swords without mentioning these parts.

I have a heavy Main Gauche with a wavy blade, I will check it later maybe its blade comes from a sword as one of the above.

PS. Now I notice. In the drawing of the two fencers fom Thomas Luis, they do not put any finger over the cross (you also do not on the first post). I find taking a cavalry 1728 without passing two fingers over the cross as problematic.

I supose you know about these people:
http://ageaeditora.com/en/livros/

They call the pas d'ane, anéis in Portuguese.
http://ageaeditora.com/en/nomes-partes-da-espada/

[midelburgo]

I found another couple of Portugese wavy swords. IIRC from a Brazilian collection.

[midelburgo]

I also ordered from AGEA some of the newly edited Portugese XVIIth century fencing manuals. It is close to Spanish Destreza, so it should not a be a surprise swords were also alike. The three on the top (left) were presents from Manuel Valle many years ago.

Next is my navy dagger with a wavy blade, posibly recycled from a sword.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

... They call the pas d'ane, anéis in Portuguese.
http://ageaeditora.com/en/nomes-partes-da-espada/

The actual pas d'ane, i believe, but not the cup fixation 'patillas', i guess.