Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th June 2006, 11:26 PM   #1
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default A short Katana

I have just learnt some (?) of the lexicon used in this weaponry, in order to try and query on this on this sector.
Probably this specimen i have just bought is a so called Wakisachi ... the blade is 44 cms. long.
The dual efect in the iron guard ( Tsuba ... ) looks like the Yin-Yang chinese symbol, which gets me lost, as i can't figure further on.
The all set is damaged ... the blade was subject to heavy misuse.
Various parts missing ( fuchi-kashiro (?) and other ).
Any member within this area, to give me a little push, both in possible age and classifying?
Thanks a lot in advance.
fernando
Attached Images
   
fernando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2006, 02:25 AM   #2
Rich
Member
 
Rich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: comfortably at home, USA
Posts: 432
Default

You have a shinogi-zukuri wakizashi. The signature is Hisamichi. Can't
tell age as there were several smiths working at various periods using
this name. I would "guess" maybe late 1600's to mid 1700's. But that
is just a guess based on style, condition and known smiths.

The tsuba is quite rusted, but I suspect it is an early one,
possibly Ko-Shoami or Katchushi.

You might find my website useful. Visual glossaries, all sorts of info
on Japanese swords. Use either mirror site that is available.

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

or

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm

If I can be of further help, just post a message.

Rich

Last edited by Rich; 1st July 2006 at 02:33 AM. Reason: correction
Rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2006, 04:40 AM   #3
t_c
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ca, usa
Posts: 92
Default

Hi, I hate to be the one to say this, but I think you may have something other than a 17th or 18th century piece. I am not an expert on Japanese swords, but I have had the opportunity to inspect a number. If I am wrong about this I hope that someone will please correct me.

My observations:

For the japanese sword some dating is done by the condition of the tang. The rust tends to be uniform from the uniformity of moisture in the wooden core. This piece shows what appears to be slag, not rust, with bright steel underneath. (Slag is the surface oxidation that develops after a "heat" by placing the blade in a furnace and then exposing it to the air). Surface rust that is apparent in older pieces has a tendancy (from what I have seen) to gently deteriorate sharp edges into softer more rounded edges, whereas the signature on this tang has some quite sharp lines in certain areas.

Another way to judge the date of a japanese sword is to try to determine how many times it has been polished. When a japanese sword is polished it is polished from the area covered by the Habaki (not present here) lengthwise all the way down the blade. What happens over repeated polishings is that the tang (which represents the original forged thickness of the blade) ends up being quite thicker than the rest of the blade (the thickness develops a pronounced taper in towards the blade). Look for this in the thickness of the tang as it becomes the blade right at the muni-machi (back notch - where the spine "steps" into tang).

To further validate the age of your piece take a moment to look at the tsuba. When a tsuba is fitted to a blade, it is "punched" in four corners (either side of the front edge, and either side of the back edge). This is much the same concept as center-punching to prep for a drilling. The metal is pushed into the void where the blade passes through and then filed down to fit the cross section of the blade so that the fit is snug and well aligned. These punch marks should be somewhat distinct. Sometimes tsuba are cast and these marks are much softer in their form (if they have not been re-punched to fit the blade). This may also help you shed some light on your piece.

The unfortunate truth about signatures on Japanese swords is that they tend to be well documented and therefore easily researched. I find that one must rely on more than just a signature to date a sword properly.

I hope this all helps, and if someone has different ideas about this piece, or if my understanding of the processes described are erronous (it has been a while since I was around the japanese stuff ) please chime in.
t_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2006, 02:16 PM   #4
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Thanks a lot Rich
Your website was already in my "favorites" ... it was the first one i entered, to get acquainted to the Japanese swords area. I am much obliged for the style classification and maker's signature.
I will get back to your site, to learn some more.

Thank you so much t c, for your precious remarks and hints.
This sword was bought in a close to junk condition. All parts must have been separated and exposed for whatever time, then wrongly reassembled, with the tsuba next to the blade, with the tang and habaki stuck deep into the tsuka(?), to a craking point. The blade must have being subject to infant swords play, with its various dents. It was once striken with hard sandpaper, certainly for unrusting, not for polishment. It also served as a hammer, as the tang end was smashed in such manner.
It is therefore dificult for me to judge on its age, even after learning from you the various sympthoms to find so.
Let me see:
The habaky was in the first picture; it shows signs of age. I don't find the use for that orifice in both center sides, as i haven't yet seen more of this style in the web. Do you know what this represents ?
You are right, the signature is well preserved; also because it was strongly punched, even with a scale efect. It was easy for the present rust cleaning brush process, to brighten the texture scales. Before the cleaning, the tang had such slag in the greater area ... the rest was irregular rust, with some portions of neither.
As for the thinning of the blade in the muni-machi area, due to frequent polishings , i don't find it so visible. Instead i notice a clear reduction of the blade width, maybe due to sharpening, not from polishing, i would think.
The tsuba has indeed a few punches, but apparently only on the other side, as shown in present pictures. However its center hole seems to be too large to adjust to the section of this blade. Possibly this tsuba belonged to a larger sword, as i don't see how the ( missing ) seppas woud eliminate this problem.
Obviously and apart from any judgement misguidings due to this piece mistreatments, i don't expect it to be 17th or 18th century, but i also guess it wasn't produced "just the other day".
Rich also noted there were various Hisamichi, in different periods.
Would you say this is a 19th century blade ? a later scabbard ? an earlier tsuba ?
Thank you so much for your involvement.
fernando
Attached Images
   
fernando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2006, 02:28 PM   #5
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

sorry, two more
Attached Images
  
fernando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2006, 04:09 PM   #6
Rich
Member
 
Rich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: comfortably at home, USA
Posts: 432
Default

There were smiths named Hisamichi working from the mid 1600's to the
late 1800's. Hard to tell given the abuse this blade has had. From the
style of tsuka-maki (handle wrap), this might (?) be a Satsuma Rebellion
sword. Just a guess.

Rich
Rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2006, 08:12 PM   #7
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Thank you Rich
I will follow that track.
fernando
fernando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2006, 06:37 AM   #8
t_c
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ca, usa
Posts: 92
Default

Thanks for the additional photos and information, it's changed my thinking on the piece.

As for the circle in the habaki, I would say abstract japanese design motiff: think full moon or sun. Interpret as you will. I agree with you, I haven't seen very many pierced habakis. It threw me off. I'd be interested to know if the habaki is folded or cast (it doesn't look to be cast)? If it is folded there should be a soldered seam on the edge side possible with a small wedge in there as well.

You made me realize that someone who doesn't collect wouldn't treat the rust on the tang the way a collector would, they would simply think it needed to be cleaned like everything else. So obvious now, yet sometimes it's so easy to only look at a thing from your own perspective.....

The handle also threw me off as I have not seen that style of wrap done before. I'd be interested if this style was done for the same purpose as other so-called "battle wrap" styles. I was told that "battle wrap" (using a single pass of wrap) was done to conserve on the wrap material in times when it was scarcer (aka wartime) as a single pass around uses less than crossing passes around. Rich: are you familiar with this style? Can you offer any additional info?

I think it was fairly common for tsubas to find their way to a new sword (at least in our times), so it doesn't suprise me that it is too big for the blade even though it wasn't re-fit to it. To be honest, what I was wondering was if the piece had been cast from an original. From your photos, it does not appear to be the case. Here's a site I like with lots of examples of tsuba:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

I really don't know about age, it just didn't strike me as being 400-300 years old (no offense Rich), but then again I hadn't really taken into acocunt a good "sandpapering" session. I do like what you suggested though: 19th century blade / earlier tsuba.
t_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2006, 12:36 AM   #9
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Hi t c
I am still trying to assimilate all the opennings you and Rich have given me in the last posts ... and all the web research in between, including your and his lwebinks.
The copper habaki is folded, with an imperceptible brass welding seam below ... the front half craked ... or made that way, to aproach the blade, what would you say?
The wedge is not there, though is clearly missing one, in this specific case.
I will be back with the tsuba comenting.
fernando
fernando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2006, 02:54 PM   #10
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,620
Default

Hi, sorry i am late.
I assume this isn't obviously a fine collector's specimen.
However I took this opportunity to start learning about japanese swords, which i find to be a vaste universe, indeed.
So i tryed to reconstitute this piece, compensating the parts that are missing ( fuchi and seppas and nakago ana ? ), with detachable wedging.
I saw in the appointed webpages that tsubas were often forged with a fair large opening, and its adjustment to the blades was done with
bits of soft metal ... kubicheni. Maybe this very one had that condition ... as in fact its total width is rather reduced ( 63 m/m ).
I hadn't noticed before that the grip pommel ( kashira ? ) is still there, as quite rusted and placed underneath the wraping cross.
I've had some polishing done to the blade, to atenuate a part of the ugly scratches. I wonder if the texture appearing in some parts of
this blade can be considered a grain from the forging ( hada ? ).
The shape of the dents pictured shows either misuse or, in my fantasy, real action had by this blade.
I have being searching the web on the tsuka style, in the Satsuma Rebellion period swords, after your observation. I gladily found a note saying
that period tsukas had little or no ornamentaion, and the menuki were often " sun discs", which i conclude to be those of my sample.
As for the blade signature, i have noticed that te famous Hisamichi smiths signed a more complete name, not just Hisamichi 久道. So this could be
a later punction used by other late smiths, to add value to the piece, or just a later one with the same last Name.
I hope that all this i am guessing is not a lot of nonsense.
fernando
Attached Images
 
fernando is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.